So my mom has her Pisces moon on the descendant. Words cannot express the sheer amount of NEEDY that is going on here during her Saturn return (and she has Saturn rising/opposite her moon to boot). Clingy, clingy, clingy, calling me 8 times a day, and always bitching that she's not getting enough attention.

She's been a widow for 2 years and boy, does that not agree with her. She has a male best friend that she obviously has had a crush on for years, even though she denies it. (I'm sorry, but I've seen platonic guy friendships and that is not how you act in one.) The guy is married and presumably had his shot at marrying Mom but wasn't interested, but she continues to cling and get all nutty about him not giving her enough attention. I am really tired of her calling me all the time to bitch about not seeing him or what stupid things his wife did lately.

It's pretty obvious that she won't let go of having hopes about this guy (on some level) until she finds someone else to occupy her affections, and she's admitted as much. I keep begging her to start dating or to get a dog, but she says stuff like "I'm not ready" and "My house is a mess." Excuses, excuses, I say.

Now, I know you can't push someone to date and whatnot, but she's using me as a liferaft (and the guy, to some degree) and I'm drowning and she isn't listening when I start screaming to BACK OFF. I go to group therapy with her and she just won't acknowledge the message, just keeps asking me to suck it up and take whatever she dishes out because she NEEDS so badly and I'm the only person she has.

Any ideas on how to cope with this? She very obviously NEEDS SOMEBODY RIGHT THIS VERY BLEEPING SECOND, but it's not like I can force her to date. And I can't help but secretly think that anyone with a moon on the desecendant can't really NOT be ready to date because they need so hard and don't like being alone. 

Yikes!  This would drive me nuts!! 

The only thing I can think of is if you could somehow extract yourself from going to group therapy with her.... she needs to develop some new realtionships.  Unless this group is  specifcally for families.  In which case I would think there would be others who could see what was happening between you and call her on it??  Couldn't you bring this issue out in the group, if you haven't done so already?  She won't find anyone else, friend or partner, if she's got you to always be there for her.  I'm sure there are others here in the forum who will have better solutions, though.

It's clear to me that she is afraid of another loss.  I have a friend whose husband left her for another woman.  Luckily for her (not the kids) she has 3 kids to sound off to, and a few "lucky" friends..... But if you and that married friend are her only outlet, that's got to be tough for you (and and your mom).  You're her child -- unless you die, or you totally cut her out, she knows you'll be there for her, thick or thin.  No fear of loss.  Same thing with her married friend -- she can use him to satisfy at least part of her needs, and because he's married to her (safe abd not truly tied to her) she doesn't have to worry about losing him either.

Good luck Jen!

Edit:  She needs to develop some new realtionships on her own!

Another edit, sorry!!  "And because he's NOT married to her"....

Oops. I should probably clarify that "group therapy" means that my shrink sees her along with me once a month. Before this last session (and the period of Crazy that erupted in mid-June) it was really working to lessen the crazy. Nothing made a dent in her last week though.

That's the problem...I can't leave her, I am stuck because it's not like I have anyone else to rely on either. I just don't want to be married to/partnered with my mother. I guess I don't get a choice in that though, at least not without stabbing her in the heart and running away or going to jail :P

forgive me if it's posted elsewhere jenfullmoon, but do you live with your mom?  Work away from her?  Have some time alone?  How is she contacting you so much?  Why do you always have to pickup the phone??  This is a boundaries issue of sort.  Can you set a limit with her - Mom, I'll answer two phone calls from you a day.  More than that and I'm not answering????? something to give yourself some relief??

What are the ages here? 

I live an hour and a half away from her, she just won't stop calling me (now at work too). I go through phases where I don't answer the phone or just turn off the cell, but she'll just keep calling and clogging my box with messages. 

I have been trying to set boundaries with her for quite some time (see group therapy), but she doesn't respect them at all no matter what I do. We AGREED a few months ago that we would only have phone calls twice a week, Wednesdays and Sundays, but then she'd bitch that she couldn't call me on Mondays and what if something happened on Mondays and blah blah...next thing you know it's back to her constantly calling again. Even after I've screamed at her that seven phone calls in a day is too much, here comes call #8 because we have to be like Oprah and Gayle. I have gone through periods where I refused to talk to her, I've hung up on her for months on end at one point, nothing I have done has stopped her from acting as she's going to do. 

I can't help but think that she needs someone else to leech off of, and that's the only way she won't be leeching off me. The only time the phone calls stop is if she actually has something to do with other people at night, but that's not frequent enough.

She is 59. I am....way too old for this and too embarrassed to admit my age here. 

Hello jenfullmoon,

I'm sorry to hear your Mom is so needy & clingy. It's so hard to be close to someone like that. My Grandma is like that sometimes (she' 92 yo). My gran has barely any friends and clings to Mom & i a lot. I usually call her or see her about 1 time a week or every other week. I don't know what to say except maybe focus on something else like your friends, a good book & ignore her for a few days? Or do you have to talk to her every single day? It's hard to detach with people we love, I get that! You can't fix your Mom (you're prob very aware of this already am guessing!), but perhaps you can have less contact! It's harder though when they help us financially. You don't have to be a martyr for her or anybody else. Sometimes my Mom will get into some drama stuff (like when i've gotten home from her house, there's one or two messages about "the taxi hasn't come & got Grandma yet (they get on each other's nerves big time but love ea. other lots)....which one did you call? (my car's tiny & can't fit a walker, though love my gran to death) & I just have to detach, I can't stand that B.S. anymore (like you say, am getting way too old for that crap)! She has very few tools to tone down her anxiety/stress. And doesn't drink (lol)...Am only speaking for my own experience. You sound like your much healthier than your Mom, no offense! Keep us updated here please! ;-) B.L.

Maybe you and she could choose an activity to do together, that would require working or being with groups of people.  Volunteer somewhere, join a bowling league, take some sort of class together?  Anything to get her out there and meet more people.  Also, is she going through menopause?  That could be making her act all nuts, too!  A doctor or naturopath visit might be in order....

"I guess I don't get a choice in that though, at least not without stabbing her in the heart and running away or going to jail :P"

I understand your words so well, and because I do, it made me laugh my ass off.

Can't live with'em and can't kill them. I wish I had some decent advice but I sure as hell don't. I am still floundering around myself. I actually did go to my doc and explain my situation with my mother, and got the verification of my worst fear that she has Alzheimer's. The only comfort was I know now it wasn't ALL just me. I got some tranqs which I haven't used yet. Just feels ok that I know I have them in case I feel like I am going over the edge.

Has your mom been checked for this disease? She certainly sounds like she is losing some control. At the least she has lost her sense of crossing the boundaries in her need for constant contact with you.

Regardless, you have my most sincere sympathies on your situation with her.

(((Jenfullmoon)))

hummm

"We AGREED a few months ago that we would only have phone calls twice a week, Wednesdays and Sundays, but then she'd bitch that she couldn't call me on Mondays and what if something happened on Mondays and blah blah..."

I don't mean to sound mean about you or your mom, but you stated your needs, she refused to respect them...but I also can't help but think you refused to respect them yourself...

If that was the agreement, can't you go back to it, and be very firm in only answering on those days? It might take awhile for her to get it, but by showing her that you're not going to deal with it except in those time parameters, then that's the compromise. Or, the other thing, is telling her YOU will call HER at a certain time when it's convenient for you each day. And then don't pick up her calls in between.

As for emergencies, you will know them when they happen, right? If she makes everything seem like an emergency to her, then that's like the boy who cried wolf, and it only makes it worse for herself later. 

You are very wise, hrae --

She wants every day, multiple times a day. Oprah and Gayle. I tried calling her every single day for over a year once and I got nearly suicidal. (If you ask her now, I never called her every day :P) I do worry about early onset Alzheimer's with her, but with the menopause and being a widow, that might be the cause too. So far nothing has come up at the doctor's other than her being recommended depression drugs that she won't take. I dread the day she comes down with dementia because then my life is over, so I hear you, daemoness.

Every day that I talk to her on the phone I am crankier than other days (and it has been pointed out to me). I tend to not be home almost every night of the week so she can't call me ("I'm in class" and "I'm working" and "I have a meeting" help), but June was a pretty dead month and she got in the habit of knowing I'd be home whenever she felt like dialing. Which is 97% of the time :P

I agree on the emergencies, but she clearly doesn't care about the crying wolf factor. Or she just can't tell what an "emergency" is. She called yet again (phone call #4) last night when I had a friend over and when I asked if it was an emergency she got all snotty at me. 

I probably shouldn't pick up. I just feel like I am stuck dealing with her call no matter what. She clogs the voice mail box to the point where I don't ever want to listen to ANY messages (if a real emergency comes up, I'm not going to know about it), she won't e-mail, she calls every phone number she can and I definitely can't not pick up her calls at work (no caller ID).

I read some Dear Abby column the other day that was like this and Dear Abby was pretty much like, "Just give in, she's never going to change." Sigh. Probably true. I just want to wring her neck these days AND I have to spend the weekend over there. I've seen her on almost every weekend since March. Argh.   

My best friend has her Pisces Moon AND Sun in 7th... and her Pisces Sun/Moon mom is like this too.... egads.<!--Session data-->

moonpluto- i feel unworthy of your compliment, but thank you

((jenfullmoon)) best of luck to you, and her- maybe a transit will pass your mom soon and shed some light unto her

Detach or Die!!!

 Oh my, that must be something akin to how you're feeling!  Can you change phone numbers and/or get an additional cell-line and only use the new for your RL and the old one she knows, turn off the ringer, except for the appointed time of contact?????  What does your boss say about her calling at work? 

Wow, I had no idea that so many others were going through the same ordeals.  Here's my story. I am a 31 year old guy..youngest of 4. My parents are both older.. Mother is 64, Father is 72. My Mom has been in failing health for several years, due to Emphysema/COPD.

Last year, 1 month before my 30th birthday, I was layed off from my job as a Pharmacy Technician, my rent on my Apartment went up $200 bucks, I totaled my car.. and that is just for starters. My Mother went into a coma in July (a day before my birthday). I was asked to move back home, when she finally recovered (Which I had too anyway, because I could not find another job). I became the primary caregiver, though my Mom has ups and downs in her disease.

For the most part my other 3 siblings refuse to do anything to help and I believe my father is in the begining stages of Dementia, but he will not see a doctor and won't admit it. Then my sister comes to "help", yet the only thing she does is cook and brag to everybody about all the work she has done at my Moms house. (Although I am the one who actually does it).

I am in the process of getting back on my feet and leaving them to deal with the hell, I'm done. Sometimes you can love someone and want to give them everything, but you can only give so much.

It's really hard for me to know that I have to cut ties if I want to survive, but sometimes it's the onle way.

I hope all you  find your own answers and hopefully come away knowing that you have done all you can do.

Thanks for sharing your stories.. It meant a lot to me to know I am not alone. 

And for the record... I am a Cancer Sun/Libra Moon/Gemini Rising.. Mom is an Aries Sun/Cancer Moon/Leo Rising.. Dad is Libra Sun/Aquarius Moon/Scorpio Rising and my sister is Pisces Sun/Pisces Moon/ Sag Rising

You don't say who has the 7th house moon but by your post it sounds like it may be you. What house does your mother's moon fall in? Because mine falls in my 8th on the cusp (I think) of my ninth and she is forever trying to control my life and is a real busy body! It took me years to extract myself! All of the above advice is very sage...

I like the get a second cellphone idea.

You need your space. your mother needs to find another outlet.

i have kids 28 and 30 and I really really try not to overwhelm them by calling them too often.  I can't imagine going to therapy and agreeing to something and then going on the BLITZ.

I'd start calling her old friend up and asking them to fix her up on blind dates.

And the friendship with a married man? THAT can't be good.

Good luck.
PUSH AWAY, you need to.