I am not really sure what I am seeking in writing this, if anything, though I suppose the fact that I am writing here speaks that I AM seeking something. I am hurt, and angry..and though I can see this situation in a higher light, it does not change that I am hurt and angry, and I have worked too damn hard to feel and acknowledge my emotions to  detach from them now, though a small part of me wants to do exactly that.

Here's the story...

My 22 year old daughter has been with a young man the past 2 years, co-habitating. My intuition with him from the first was not great, but I learned to accept him as her choice. They recently split, her choice, and I admired her reasonning upon the split and felt she handled it very well. She loves him, yet really could not see herself with him long-term..no similiar goals etc. Thier sexuality seems to have been their core, she admits, and everything else is really not that strong. Anyway..she tried to be his 'friend' through the split and take the higher road. 

Two nights ago I knew something was wrong. I have little 'signs' when one of my girls needs me..a song personal to each of them I will hear, their birth time appearing, a mothers 'knowing'..we haven't spoken in about 3 weeks(she has a crazy work schedule), but I immediately phoned her, and she didn't pick up. This didn't sit well wit me, but I let my logic win out over my intuit, and I just left a message telling myself she was working or sleeping.

She phoned the next afternoon..her 'ex' showed up at her apartment the night before. And it was violent. He restricted her from leaving or being able to get to her phone and  repeatedly choked and suffocated her with a pillow. The next day, he grabbed the extra door keys on the way out. There's alot I am not writing here, I feel alot of women here know exactly the in-betweens I am omiting, and that is one of the things that is so damned sad about it all.

Here's the icing on the damn cake though...my eldest that this happened to, has 2 dads. One biological(he was absent until she was 18), and my ex-husband(whom adopted her at 3 when we married). Both, of these men, abused me in like fashion. As my daughter told me of what happened to her, the details, I could barely contain my voice and words and stay focused for her good..for it was exactly a repeat of a scenario between her birth fahter and I before she was born. EXACTLY. Then, I found myself having to call her other father, my ex, immediately as he was closest to her in location to receive his help in dealing with what needed to be done. And he did take care of it. Yet it was so surreal, to have him going to deal with this for his daughter, when he had many times done same things to me, as my daughters boyfriend did to her. Yet, although this may seem out there, it seemed RIGHT..karmic some how, that HE go 'fix' this in some way.

So, my daughter is ok, and is not ok. And I am ok, and not. And this is not about me, and yet it is. And I think I feel selfish in a way..like somehow I am making this about me, and I should be able to only focus on my daughter and her needs right now..but it is all tangled up.  There is a huge, rather nasty ball of energy all coiled up in my power center, and I am holding it in for all I am worth..keep pulling it back down out of my thrid eye and sucking it in. So I need to discharge this shit, but right now, for some reason I am not. Mostly I suppose because I don't know where to dispose of it.

Elsa I apologize for unloading this crap in your house. I do feel 'safe' here though to share this..and I really needed somewhere to go with this.

I am attaching my daughters chart and mine. Not sure why..just seems like I should. Maybe someone here had something I need to hear.

In regards to my daughters chart..her Pluto/Mars conj in her 5th has really had my attention the past few weeks..and I had a feeling why. She is highly artistic, yet has forgone all of her creativity while she was in the relationship..this was one of her reasons for the split, she wanted to get back to her art. I feel this is all laced together..

<img mce_tsrc='http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6730/kchart.gif' border='0' />" border="0" />http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6730/kchart.gif   Daughter

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2951/chart809.gif   Mine

(((kachina)))

and no need to apologize.

~elsa~~

Thank you..deeply and sincerely, thank you.

((kachina)) - i am so sorry, both for your daughter and you.

i've been in the position of being told a child has been physically abused by a partner and it's something i'll never, ever forget. there is no feeling in the world like that. i also never want to experience it again.

don't feel guilty for "making it about you" - there's no way you can watch your child go through that without personal feelings - and re-stimulating your own memories. you keep it together when you're helping her and fall apart after you get off the phone, y'kno?

i don't have anything to say other than I'm really sorry and am sending love to you and your daughter today...

(((kachina))))  I have no words.  I'm so sorry.

Last try..ugh!

Daughter

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6730/kchart.gif

Mine

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2951/chart809.gif

(((Kachina))) how awful..I am so so sorry this happened to you twice, and to your daughter too.. you feel as a mum that you are supposed to protect your child. In a sense it's like unwittingly passing on a gene for an illness, never knowing you carried it..and yet that was passed to you, too.

Couldn't see the charts, but do know about Mars/Pluto violence and assault. At age 14 and age 19 what you are alluding to happened to me, the second occasion being three weeks after giving birth, which was the final nail in the coffin of that relationship, and I have a loving, good marriage now, for many many years, where the Mars/Pluto has manifested as me being there for him through health crises and becoming sole provider for a few years, a situation that's rebalancing now. So Mars/Pluto CAN be rechannelled after abuse.

I in no way feel this is linked to my mother, although she had some tough times in her relationship, only wish with all of my heart that I had been able to talk to her then when it happened, but we didn't have that openness that you so clearly have. You are such a loving mother.  Do you feel that because you had two similarly aggressive relationships, that you've passed this on in some way? Maybe it was passed to you too though. So that aspect, I truly feel isn't something you should focus on.  You are no longer in one of those abusive relationships from the sounds of it, and this is not in any way your "fault".

You may also be experiencing a great build up of your own rage and grief and the sense of impotence/powerlessness that surrounds those times when you yourself were abused.  Wishing you had been able to use that same masculine power to repel your attackers. Fact is that Mars Pluto stuff is often so intense that women with that aspect are a bit afraid to use it.  It works really well in helping others through crisis though.

Your daughter has a magnificent supporter in you. I sense that in calling up your ex to go help her, you intuitively did the right thing almost a bit like homeopathy that treats the illness with the cause.

Yes, hun, this IS about you.  It's YOU who's asking for some support and understanding here, and you know what? You also deserve that.

One mum to another.. big big hugs xxx

ps can see your charts have posted now.. but y'know..I've said it anyway xx

Goddess,

I am sorry you have had this experience too. I appreciate what you offer in way of holding it together, and dealing with/letting it go when alone. I am just nowhere close yet to having a clue on how/when to do that..but I know it will come when it is time.

Thank you, your love is appreciated.

((Goddess))

SaDiablo,

Words aren't always neccessary, knowing someone cares is what is important.

Thank you for caring. xxxxxxxx

I feel the intensity and vulnerability of this post and I appreciate it. I am on my phone and can't see the charts--

These kinds of revelations are amazing, these kinds of synchronicites are amazing- even when it is something very difficult like this.
The mother-daughter closenss gets expressed in so many ways.

This is not my "bar" but I am happy you feel safe here and came here to tell us what is happening.

I don't have any advice per se except to say that I'm sure you are on the right track and you sound like a wonderful mother - do not doubt that for a minute. I hope you and your daughter find strength and peace in the coming days. It will take time, as everything does--
She has been thru something very traumatic which no doubt triggers you -

I have repeated things from my mother's life. Remembering this parallel as I write! She is passed but I was involved in a relationship not so good for me, a very venus in the 12th house kind of thing. And I realized it was eearily similar to a longterm relationship she had with a married man for many years. I don't know why life works this way.

And I agree about the father's karma. Make sense to me and very powerful that it was so literal, that he had to "save" instead of hurt.

(((Kashina))) 

It's not your fault, it's the men

I know what anger you can have i've been abused too, don't like to talk about and feeled achamed but it's absolutely NOT the women's fault. To help I would say your daughter shall go to the police, well it's a crime no ?

There are so much women abused, I would like to know the real percent, I think 50% and it's going worse I feel...it seems to be a "normal" thing, taboo but quite normal. I'm sorry my english is to bad...can't express what I mean really

Take care, i'm sorry for you, violence disguised as love is killing

(((Kachina))) your words made me well up, I'm so sorry.

((((Kachina and daughter))))

((((kachina and your kidlet))))

your love for your daughter is palpable. i'm glad you feel safe here, too 

Lindaloo,

Thank you for sharing your personal experience, it is wonderful to know that as you have done, we CAN channel this energy in a productive manner.

After I read your post yesterday, I unplugged for quite a few hours. You brought up all the right stuff for me and it helped tremendously for me to be able to focus in on what was really at the core of my personal pain in this. Thank You!! 

It hurt like hell, but I went there and had a real good look around, and by last evening was able to be much more objective and release alot of the rage I was in earlier.

Responding to some of your thoughts:

"Do you feel that because you had two similarly aggressive relationships, that you've passed this on in some way?"

Not exactly. More like I felt like all the work I have done to self-empower with the Mars-Pluto square, among other tough aspects, had somehow passed by me and activated for my daughter, instead of being cleared and released. Recently I have had alot of strong affirmations and insights that felt like a confirmation that I had finally reasonably balanced these energies in me..and then this happened. It felt like a test for me. Like I was being faced with a 'are you going to stand in your power, or are you going to revert to old patterns'...you know. So, though I most of my did not believe it was my fault, something, somewhere in side of me did.

 "Wishing you had been able to use that same masculine power to repel your attackers. Fact is that Mars Pluto stuff is often so intense that women with that aspect are a bit afraid to use it. "

Bingo. :)  Of course like alot of women I had some pretty warped patterns thanks to a really screwed up family on what women should/shouldn't do..and I also had a personal warped understanding of what it means to serve another. I was terrrified most of my life of the power I carry..always felt like I was reigning it to prevent it getting away from me and hurting someone. I now know when we repress that kind of energy, it just attracts others that will in some way, force us to own it, use it, and get comfortable with it. For me, most of my abuse was sustained from family since shortly after birth until 15, so it was a case of the abusers weilding the power in some manner, then daily psychologicaly impressing upon me idea's that would keep me thinking I was either crazy, or that what was happening to me was 'normal and good for me'. It really wasn't until Saturn conj. my moon/asc about ten years ago that I really started to see how very wrong it all was. Before that, I disconnected from my past, but never really dealt with it.

"I in no way feel this is linked to my mother..."

That statement made me gasp..lot's of mother wrapped in this for me. I was terrified that I was like my mother was for me, to my children, and I was just fooling myself into believing otherwise. I had to really look at that, don't think it's done for me, but at least now I am aware of it.

The moon in my chart represents very literally for me. I am the oldest of 5, with a huge extended family on my mothers side. Severe abuse is rampant in both sides. All forms of abuse, murderers..you name it, its there. It is all intricately laced too, in a 'need' of most of the family to use religions in a manner to redeem themselves inbetween harmful behaviours. Quite a mess.

My mother was never really equipped to be a mother, in my opinion. It just wasn't there. She is currently in marriage number 6, 5 of those being the past 20 years, and she is a narcissitic personality. I have no memories of her ever saying 'I love you', she never attended any social functions for me, never took me to a movie, or even most places she would go daily. My dad attended to us when we were ill. When I was in crisis around 32, the full on deal..health, mental/emotional...I made a decision to end my bad habits, one of which that year was alcohol abuse. I was really good at drinking, too good, most didn't see it as a problem, but I KNEW it was. So, I needed someone to help my H at the time with the girls..just basically be in the house, so I could go to rehab for the month. I had to pay her...literally, $500 a week, and even then, she didn't really hang around. Anway though, I was cast into the role of mother to my siblings very early, and was also in charge of most that a mother would do..I had no young life.

My mother(no mars-pluto..but venus/jupiter opp. pluto..I think this may be apt) was never physically abusive to myself or my siblings that I was aware of, but in her own way she was malicious. She never stepped in when she saw with her own eyes abuse occurring, and she did odd things...like she did not mother her own at all, BUT, she would take in 'lost' children and had an in-home daycare and treated those children like gold, in front of her own that got nothing from her. 

I really did not have any healthy examples of males or females until I was late into my teens, so for my daughters if anything I was confused on male/female parenting roles..and became both. Alot of that was neccesity though. And now just this past year or so I am doing alot of personal work for myself in the area of redefining the archetypal and literal mother for myself, and within myself.

Again, thanks so much for bringing up what you have..it helps me tremendously to really be able to work through this all by writing it out and really seeing it.

Blessings!

~~~Alicia, Liz, Kashmiri~~~

Thank you, so very much. :) 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

(((kachina))))

Oh Kachina, I'm so sorry.  Believe in yourself.

Kachina..what a life you've led..want to say so much more but I am about to leave for the weekend, but you have by sharing, opened my eyes more to Mars/Pluto..wow.. I'd like to chat more, after the weekend, but a big hug and thank you for this trust and sharing, you brave, lovely lady xxx

~~Jilly and Opal~~

Thank you so much ladies for your kindness. xxxxxxxx

Moonpluto,

I greatly appreciate your sharing. When you offered(and to the other ladies that also did so):

 "you sound like a wonderful mother - do not doubt that for a minute." that went really deep and meant so much to me. It never occurred to me that someone might offer that to me..and right now having ton's of mother related issues around me, that was just simply the most perfect thing anyone could say to me I think. I stopped to think on when was the last time I offered this to another woman..just that. Has been a while I think..hoping I now do so more. Powerful healing most often come from what appears to be the tiniest of gestures, honest..heartfelt gestures. So..I thank you! :)

Blessings!

Xglop,

Your sharing with me is appreciated, your native language does not matter at all...I feel you. :)

No, the police were not brought into this. I advised my daughter on her options, she chose not to involve them, and I feel it was her choice to make. Her father had contact with her ex and his parents, and security measures were taken for my daughter..changing locks, pepper-spray, buddy systems..etc.

As for police involvement, I have myself had varying experiences over the years, but for the most, when it is domestic in nature, the crime, I have found for myself police involvement was seldom the right course. That is not to say that all officers of the law are incompetent or 'bad' in some way...just never worked out well for me and many others that I know.

Blessings!

I wanted to thank everyone for the support this week...this was a very different experience for me, turning it 'out there' I guess you could say, and accepting support. Not my strong suit at all. I am so glad I did though, and you were all so absolutely wonderful.

My daughter is doing fairly well(back to work and her life)..she is a strong cookie and I am trying to let it go and not worry on what may come up for her later with all of this. I don't want to be the reason, with my worrying or over-nurturing right now, that she makes this a bigger issue for herself, then it may actually be.

It was a really tough week for me, I think I may have been more traumatized than she, due to my apparently unhealed wounds from my shit. Seems everytime you feel you really have 'healed' your stuff..something gets dredged up that reminds you it is a long journey to true healing. I do believe in whole healing though, with all of my heart. I know many do not, and I honor that..but for me, I do believe that we can heal 100% of these situations...some say that is an idealist notion, but I don't really care, it keeps me getting up each morning and striving to be a better person in some way, for myself and others..and on the tough days, well..it just get's me up in the morning. :)

All of your love and kindness is appreciated immensely.

With Blessings and thanks!

Hey kachina, I have the Mars square Pluto square too, Mars on my ASC instead of DC. My sister has the conjunction, with Saturn in the middle, Pluto on DC. I find ppl with the square are tough as nails, even if they don't appear so at first. Like you, I believe in 100% healing, or at least, in the transformation of personality. There was a point in my teens when I was completely fed up w/dealing w/all these predatory men. I had HAD IT. I thought: whatever it is that's inside me that's attracting these men and making me think I should be scared of them, I'm going to hunt that part of myself down, grab it by the throat and make it answer to me. Things changed permanently for the better after that.

Here's a thread I started from another community with some positive ways of experiencing the square: http://www.nodeorama.com/viewtopic.php?id=3059 Hope it helps!! If there's anyone who can make permanent changes in their life and get out of bad circumstances, it's the Mars-Pluto people.

Kachina,

 Pardon my interuption here as I dont' comment on my sister's blog

often. I just wanted to say that putting this out there for others to comment takes bravary and is doing "the right thing." To shine light on the darkness of the soul of a nam who would man handle a woman is always right and most importantly, to one of your comments.

there is never too much loving mothering to do  when something like this happens to your child. I only wish I had a loving mother to turn to when this happened to me. I had Elsa and she did everything she could to free me from my relationship with such a man. That matters, and as time goe by, your daughter will realize how lucky she is to have a mother who could understand and be there through this awful situation.

Best,

Annalisa

((kachina))  ((kachina's daughter))

in a way this is kind of "making it about me"  but hopefully my experience can help

a year and a half ago someone dear to me told me they'd undergone a similar trauma.  i knew a lot of the things they needed to hear since I'd had someone tell them to me over the phone when I called a crisis center for myself a few years before.

at that moment i was glad i'd done it so that i could be there for them.  but there was a part of me that felt like i'd failed in my unconscious sense of responsibility to them.  that somehow i should have been able to protect them?  and it retriggered a whole bunch of things i had no idea were still lying in my head and heart, from what had happened to me.

and i carried that for months.  i tried to tell one friend about what i was going through but she didn't want to hear it.  it was like slow leaking poison i kept shovelling inside.

i don't know how much advice i have but i admire your courage in reaching out.  from what i've felt, it seems being strong for someone requires a lot of energy, and when it forces you to look into your own mirror it can pull things up really fast... and you have to shove it somewhere so that you can be there for the person who needs you.  but then you have to do something with it.

i went dancing.  a lot.  mars pisces- music a rage outlet.  for me.  (especially industrial music.)  maybe your mars can tell you how to find someplace healthy to put what you have stirring...

i'm only starting to reach out for... someone to talk to... now.  i wish i'd tried harder, earlier.  i just felt so...ineffectual.  hamstrung.  for some reason.

I want to share here, but I don't know how. It has been eight years since I got away from the motherfucker who hurt me and I am still full of bile.  Even when I see someone who looks like him I start breathing heavy and change my posture. 

I have not gotten over it, I have gotten beyond it for the sake of daily living, but not over it. 

Sometimes out of nowhere it will just float across my consciousness then BAM! I get sucked into a vivid detailed righteous murder fantasy where I not only kill him with a kitchen knife but then go to jail, write my story and become some kind of martyr/hero.  Its a sickness.

I have no advice or soft words of compassion nor am I qualified to give any.  I am too full of rage.

I have no advice to give as I have not been in this situation, but ((kachina)) ... I am so sorry, and I am hopeful that things are looking up. Please stay strong -- you have all of us rooting for you and I hope that helps.

notatirem,

You reminded me of something my new therapist said that helped me a great deal.  It's small, but it resonated and I could immediately see how to apply it.  She said, "Some things you never get over.  You can get through, you can get beyond, but there's no over."
I think that's what conscious living is about, right there.  Knowing the difference between what will heal completely, what will scar, and what will always be an open wound (whether it's large and gory or small but painful when you touch it), acknowledging it, and moving forward in your own best interests regardless.  It's a special kind of bravery, I think... the uncounted brethern of the walking wounded.

I know it seems transcendence gets all the applause, but I have a special spot in my heart for implacable rage.  There are times that forgiveness and transcendence seem too much like giving in, like martyrdom (heh... yeah, we are talking 12th house, huh?), and some people don't deserve that level of sacrifice, imho.  They deserve to be discomfited, into the next life if need be, for their deeds.  Yeah, that might make me unevolved, but fuck it: some people are not worthy of my forgiveness!  Yeah, I said it.  *laughs*  I'm perfectly happy to play Kali.
It takes all kinds to make the world run, and that includes both those willing to forgive and those who aren't.  Neither is "better," they just are.

So, yeah.  Rock on with your bad self.  As long as you're functioning (and you are, on all cylinders it seems), then it doesn't matter if you get a periodical urge to kill this guy.  It only matters what you do with it.  (((notatirem)))

Wyrdling,

If there is anything 'good' in having our experiences, it IS that we are able to cut right to the root of same/similiar situations for others, and help direct them to the safer path, no matter what that is.I think it is wonderful that you stepped in when your friend needed it, there alot of people that choose not to.

Which comes around to the friend you mentioned whom 'didn't want to hear it'. My situations started in childhood, but continued in jags, until I was 36. I am 40 now, so it hasn't been all that long that I have been free of abusive relationships. Not so much as a child, but more as an adult, I was deeply hurt each time I would confide to someone what I was/had experienced, and they either didn't believe me, or just said something like 'what do you want me to do about it', or my least favorite, 'it's over, just forget about it'. When I had my Saturn return in my late 20's, natal Saturn is in my 11th, and at that time though I didn't know astrology then, I was doing alot of Saturn work. By 30, I had only one friend really left..and she grew up next to me and saw things first hand. Everyone else was gone. 

10 years later, I still do not have alot of friends, but that is ok because the one's I do have are compatible in a sense, with me, all of me, including these parts of me that have been through crap. I have learned that when in the past, or even now, someone responds to me in a manner like I stated above, it seems to be either (a) they simply have no direct experience in what I am sharing with them, so really are not able to be supportive, or, (b) they too, have suffered abuse, and are nowhere near being ready to deal with it, and my sharing has made them deeply uncomfortable, possibly even fearful, rather if they are conscious or not of the reason. 

AH! The Mars fix..yes, yes, yes! :) I've really started using that the past few years, instead of having it fire in on me. Dancing,or just loud(what some think is awful..lol) music, fitness..I excercise everyday just about, I have too..and for me, I feel much more in control when that translates too, to my physical appearance. In fact, just the other day I had a lucid dream, and in it, my father, was watching me shower. Amazingly I did not wake up with the huge Ick factor, because there was a tone of it symbolizing a completion from that chapter, like I was standing there naked and strong, and could look him right in the eye, and say, "see, you achieved nothing, I am strong and beautiful, and there are others that will honor that, and most important, YOU can't take that away from me, ever again". That, I think is alot of a Mars gift.

I don't know when I will ever not remember, but I do know I have worked intensively and consciously these past 10 years to heal myself. The irony is, which is always the case, I am a healing facilitator for others. I have been practicing energy modalities for the past decade, and I was born(or developed early..is debatable to some I guess), with all the 'clairs' in place and functioning. As I get healthier though, the more precise my talents become, and the more effective I am with assisting others. Doing my own work though is baffling sometimes.  I have not had clients now in 3years, but I do still assist when it is in my lap in some way, though I hope when Saturn leaves my 4th soon, I shall be able to reemerge into a form of service that is more well-rounded and better for all I have learned and reworked these past 3 years.

I am glad you shared a bit of your story Wyrdling, I have come to believe this is so crucial to healing, honesty and sharing. I hope you find your peace with what has happened to you.

Much Love~~

Notatirem,

Oh god, I had a martyr complex for a really long time. It was one of the first things I really had to work on, before I could seriously start to work with the rest.

What I am going to share is not my implying in anyway that any of this fits you, but as I read your post, this is what popped up for me, and it was an experience I had just a few days ago, in fact, the day I came here and wrote what I did, and I was so full of rage that day eventually I went and laid in bed and just shook, cold to the core, teeth clattering, and surrendering it to my personal spirit assistants, because I absolutely could not deal with it on my own. 

As I was laying there, once I calmed down a bit, I found myself getting up to get a book, that I've owned for years, but never could read. The book, was "The Courage to Heal" and deals primarily with female childhood incest survivors. When there is something drawing me, I do what I call the 'show me', so I just let the book plop open. What popped out at me was the issue of forgiveness. Now at first, that really pissed me off. I thought, 'shit, not this again..I have forgiven and forgiven every f**ing way I know how'..but that wasn't at all what it was about. I don't have the book in front of me, so I can't quote it,  but basically it said similiar to what SaDiablo has offered, that how each of us deals with what we have suffered is a very individual situation, and that what is important is that we have forgiven ourselves, and also that for many,they will never in their lifetime be able to forgive their transgressor, and that is OK. 

So, I lay there and thought about that, and though I have forgiven over and over in all earnestness and to the best of my understanding, well, that day, I was in a full-blown rage. So here is what I saw, and did. I acknowledged to myself, and put it out through the ethers, that I could understand how my abusers had come to be where they are, that no, I didn't want revenge, that I DID want to be completely free of them, Period. I told myself and to whomever in the ethers that may be listening that even though that is where I have come to be now, that what happend to me, what was perpatrated against me, was NOT ok in my book. That yes, I was judging the actions of another, and in my opinion, it was not ok. That if I myself, and many others, are able to move ahead and not do to others what was done to us, then I absolutly feel every person/soul, has the ability if they so choose, to not recommit. I feel maybe in the past,when I would forgive, it was mostly good for me, but I also feel a little part of it I had to pull out and redefine. Like I had unknowingly put my stamp of approval on what the abusers had done, and I had to rescind that part.

Well, I suppose I rambled alot here, sometimes I tend to do that..all of mercury and gemini I guess. I know that you don't need my permission or anyone else's to feel rage..just here to say it took me along time to know that was true for me also, that I was allowed to feel rage, and it did not speak of me being a 'bad person' in some way. I think you are probably alot farther ahead in the game then I was or alot of others are, the fact that you can feel what you do, and be honest about it, and not let it backfire into you. A neccessary part of the process, I feel.

Blessings~

Piya,

Thank you. Your support is appreciated, and I can feel your warm heart.

Blessings~xxxxxxxxx

Isthmus,

Your words made me snicker, I can relate to wanting to dig whatever it is that attracts this out, no matter what that means. :)

I shall have a look at the link you attached, thank you.

Blessings!

Annalisa,

Thank you for your kind support, it  is appreciated. :)

Bravery, or just necessity, I do not know. I know I did this for myself, first and foremost, I needed to. It just came to that. Like I had hit a wall that this was the next necessary step to take, if I want to continue on the most probable path I have chosen, and if I did not do this, well, it would have changed my course to an alternative one I less desired. I suppose that makes sense, it is a bit hard to find words for the way I see it.

If this helps others though, I will admit to that making it more worth it in some way. I think we all wish for our struggles to have some meaning, we hope to get to the end of this journey, and be able to say, and truly mean, it was a good life.

I used to do everything in reverse in a way..I have a dear friend that says I should title an autobiography if I ever choose to do one, "Ass-backwards"..that makes me laugh, because for the first 30 years of my life, that was just perfectly so.

I am now finally really truly coming to understand that by serving myself first, I serve others. That was so hard for me to grasp, did not matter how many times someone told me that, I just had no way of comprehending it.

It was beautiful how you honored Elsa in your words, for the 'mother' she  has been for you. My siblings are not this way, but it would be a lie to say that I do not hope that possibly, someday,I will have just a bit of something from one or all of them, at least something that I know they understand, how much I loved them. When I was 15 my father put me out of the house, granted I had run away previous to that, and he brought me back from across the country to put me out..he needed to be in control of that it seems. After that time I was not permitted any unsupervised contact with my siblings, and as the years went by I vilified to them. And sadly, though we are adults now, they have their own stuff from our upbringing to work through, and just aren't there yet, so it makes it difficult to interact, for I cannot sit with them and agree with what I feel is totally false.

Blessings!

Kachina, I just want to say thank you so much for your courage in sharing so much of yourself, and to say that you have exposed Mars Pluto in its full intensity for all of us who have that square.

Abuse in some shape or form is a marker, it seems, and the mother who doesn't protect you from the fire does seem to be a theme.

I find myself incredibly moved by your tale of being naked in the shower, staring your father in the eye with all of the fire and courage of a survivor who will no longer be owned or oppressed.  It was like your soul was speaking..saying I have dignity, I have me..

There have been times in my life where the Mars/Pluto aspect reared up, as intimated further up the page, yet my own experiences seem surprisingly tame by comparison, although to many people they are not. I do know that I have moved on and upwards, always with respect for my own past, which has shaped , but not embittered me in any way. The years have also changed a lot for the two people who manifested that aspect for me, and I am delighted for one, sad for another, but glad of all that my life comprises.

I have also seen the bottom line of my Mars Pluto, the extreme, chips are down manifestation where I chose to risk my own life to save another's without a thought, despite the fact that the other was likely to kill me in a road traffic accident. I'm proud of who I am and you should be so proud of how well you've done, too.

Kachina, you come across as a very real person of depth with caring, compassion and the ability to transcend. I repeat, I am so sorry for your daughter, and for all you have endured in life, but I am also so deeply moved by your tale and humbled by your openness and honesty.

Every blessing is wished for you, too

xx

ps ((all)) .. Wyrdling, you've so clearly been travelling through tricky terrain, too, just want to say your input here is appreciated and a hug sent to you, and to everyone in that harsh Mars/Pluto land..you won't always feel as bad..Notatirem, sounds like you had a real raw deal, and I am so sorry.

Ithsmus..thanks for that link, it's a good discussion board with a gentle feel to it, and that's appreciated. 

'That if I myself, and many others, are able to move ahead and not do to others what was done to us'.

That's it, right there.  Forgiveness.