I wanted to start another thread --

although this one dovetails with my "woman is bugging me" post and I think also complements jessica's post on the bully.

So today I stood up for myself (an email conversation) and it was not easy but I felt: if she can do it, then why can't I? (Also my therapist encouraged me :)

And I am wondering why people get enraged when I stand up for myself. They can say anything at a!!!!! Accuse, blame, manipulate, control, anything -- and it's fine, I'm supposed to take it.

So when I say: NO....it's shocking. Shocking to me and to them.

Has anyone experienced this?

And I have to say, it is truly exhausting to have people project onto you. You can't tell them anything. They can't see it/hear it/understand it...

What is the astrology?

I've experienced this. Anytime I erect boundaries or anytime I take care of myeslf or think for myself, certain individuals get MAD. I think the issue isn't so much about you anymore... It's about them. Although one could argue that you have been accommodating to these people in the past.

Do you have planets in your 12th house? You probably are a compassionate person and certain emotional vampires feed on this. From what I have heard about this lady that is bugging you (and Jessica's bully), they fit the description of emotional vampires as they tend to suck the life out of you!

But yeah... Having a Sun in 12th and a Neptune in 9th makes me very prone to this... Add to that, I have a Mercury in Pisces so it's probably easy for them to think that I'm this totally boundary-less person. 

The solution to this, I find is to just sever these people. I'm still dealing with an issue similar to this (soulsucking former friends), but not to this caliber.

I'm not even sure if this helped, but that's my perspective. 

yes, it does help, Lunalie. I am an extremely compassionate person. I was starting to feel bad for this gal again! Until she shot me ....and then I woke up.....

My venus is in the 12th, also my south node....

Yup, I get this all the time. Pluto in 12th.

I have a friend who keeps getting spiritual messages about "getting her words out" because her husband is well, a dick who thinks the world revolves around him. He is constantly projecting the worst things onto her. She apparently needs to tie him up and gag him in order to get a word in edgewise. 

Because I did? Wow. Awesome!!! You go! Of course, let's see what happens when she gets back from vacation and finds out that I stood up for myself. :)

Okay, I've got a 12th house moon. Some of us seem to be in this category of twelfthishness.

Do you think maybe it's not them getting especially enraged at us, but rather us being exceptionally sensitive to their reaction at being cut off?

Hi Moonpluto,

This happens to me too - as soon as I back someone off they get angry.  Sometimes quite violently so , sometimes lesser where it turns up as sniping or undermining.  I know it's to do with the fact that they aren't getting a feed-up any more and can't stand it, but I'm not sure what the astrological signature is.  I guess it might be an opposition - the only one I have is Jupiter in the 6th opposite Pluto in the 12th; maybe kindness/benevolence in everyday life attracting manipulation from hidden enemies?  Mind you, Venus also T-squares these two from the third which is the house to do with neighbours, ones environment, so that goes in the mix as well.  They say 'good fences make good neighbours' so I'm wondering if it is a boundary issue - giving too much which allows others to take advantage, which then makes you back off and the other gets upset.  Basically the power dynamic is unbalanced from the beginning, so perhaps setting firmer boundaries from the start would stop you getting sucked into these situations.  Because that's what it's like isn't?  you sit up one day and go 'Hang on, how did I get suck(er)ed into this?'!  Feels like more prep for Saturn in Libra.

Huh??!! What happened!

opal, I don't know. There was a bunch of stuff in the html and I deleted it.  If you are cutting and pasting, try clicking the HTML link on the tool bar and then paste into that box / insert and this might fix that??

moonpluto:

That's the downside of compassion. We end up feeling bad even though these people are killing us sooo slowly and sucking us dry! It is good that you acknowledged what this woman has been doing to you. Some people with these 12th house placements don't even know they are being sucked dry and they wonder why they feel so "tired" around these energy vampires all the time.

Venus in 12th and south node... No wonder. You are very much used to self-sacrifice. Work towards self-service first before becoming of service to others. 

Just to clarify -- actually, Jessica, the "she" I was referring to was the girl who was bugging me -- that she was gonna totally come at me and I was just supposed to lie down and take it. So I thought if she can speak her mind, then I can too--

That said, I'm happy for you -it's a big deal what you did.

And J, I think you may be right. Or, what feels like Rage to me, is just a normal felt emotion for someone else? Not sure if I made sense there

You are right Opal. I think I need to be careful. But I swear she was acting like a spurned lover, like I seduced her with my listening and now we were dating! Your analysis is right on.

Boundaries.... Elsa was prepping me last week for Saturn coming to sit on my moon and I think this is a lesson...

Wow -- now I am remembering other instances of this in my life, where I am just being myself, listening, intuiting-- and then the women think we are real close, best friends. But they don't know anything about me at all--

It's like a huge mistake. Like a guy who's sleeps around. It didn't mean as much to me as it did to them...

Thanks Elsa

No problem, opal, it's my job!

That's exactly it Moonpluto!  You just listen, and suddenly they're telling everyone you are their new best friend.  Maybe they just never had anyone pay them any attention before; but then maybe there is a good reason no one pays them any attention.  It's difficult, I know, I had a woman a couple of years ago invited herself round to my house - suddenly she was here every week, staying for dinner (not invited, she just didn't go when it would be polite to), asking me to spend her birthday with her, on, and on... it got quite freaky.  She was lonely, I realised, and desperately wanted to be part of a family, but hell, you can't just barge your way in like that.  In the end I stopped answering her calls, ignored her messages, and came home one day to find her parked in my driveway waiting for me...eek.  So I had to tell her - I was polite but very firm and she left me alone after that.  Completely ignores me now when I see her, but I have heard since that she's tried it on a few other people.  Thing is, I realised afterwards that I should never have let it get as far as it did, but it was that killer - I FELT SORRY FOR HER.  It was emotional vampirism and I fell for it, plain and simple.

Hee hee sorry moonpluto, I was just taking credit where it wasn't due.   Dang, my Mars rising is stomping all over everything today.

But yeah exactly, I know you are super sensitive, and it may be that you are highly sensitive to their "rage" which is actually just them being pissed that you put up a boundary where you had a right to.

Do you think it might have to do with Neptune somehow?  The other person is projecting an illusion of something which exists only in their mind?

Hey Moonpluto! I went back to read your other post and was happy to read that you stood up for yourself!!  Wonderful!!

 I tend to have the same problem with certain people...where they get angry if I stand up for myself.  these are people that I have bent over backwards for and helped more than I should have and got no thanks for it.  But I was the one that crossed boundaries too...by giving too much and they come to expect that all the time and when we one day say No, not this time, well, it upsets their little apple cart!  Well, I have learned to set firm boundaries with one person in particular and she went the other direction, where she doesn't even speak to me now and plays games that are so childish....for example, if there is something that would have been nice to let me know...now, becomes a "well, since you said you wanted some space, I didn't think you wanted anything to do with me anymore"....makes me want to pull my hair out!  That is my sister, by the way, and it's so hard for me.  It got to where I was expending more time and energy on her problems and "helping" her that I let my own family down at times and I finally just said, no more.  

Opal...yes, there is that feeling of "feeling sorry for the other"...they are victims of every kind of offense out there.

I feel for you. You and Jessica both did great though!

I have  ,, and north node in the 12th AND a 10th house. People tell me who I am and what I think and feel. So I made a Gemini game out of it just for my own amusement. I say "really, give me an example" they then stammer because they can't give an example of me thinking or feeling whatever they projected on me. Game over.

I have a lot of compassion for people, but they totally take advantage then get furious if I take up for myself. Jeez.

"Basically the power dynamic is unbalanced from the beginning, so perhaps setting firmer boundaries from the start would stop you getting sucked into these situations. " Lightbulb! Good words Opal, good words.

Tam:

That's a great way of dealing with a situation like that! 

These people are bit players or major players in your life depending on how you choose to see it...they show up to teach you something. 

I'm as easily annoyed by the energy vampires as the next person but ultimately choosing to be the captain of our ship is more profitable, energy-reserve wise. 

I am pretty sure the reason why people get angry when you (euphemistically) stick up for yourself and define your boundaries is because THEY ARE UNABLE TO DEFINE THEIR OWN...

I have Neptune in the 12th and have loads of compassion for most anyone but it is in aspect to Saturn and have had to learn to turn off the tap. it's like water...it ain't going to stay clean and free-flowing forever if we allow the source to be poisoned.

kashmiri:

So basically, these energy vampires project their lack of boundaries onto the (12th house) person. That makes a lot of sense. 

I appreciate everyone's responses here -- I am grateful

And I agree: people show up in our lives to teach us...

Wow!  Kashmiri....good point...that makes sense. Because the feeling one gets if the other has no boundaries is to make up for it...

Tam...I am going to try that too....what a great idea! 

people without boundaries don't like hitting yours. gets more challenging because we expect them to play by the same set of standards we do. they don't.

on the plus side, if one of these folks is p.o.'d at you, it probably means you did a good job of setting your own boundaries.

kashimiri is right about boundries. i have my sun, saturn and jupiter in the 12th. i have had major issues with a controlling mother and it wasnt until i set up boundries that things got a little peaceful.