If an Aries and a Scorpio got into it, who would win?  What do you think?

(I figured this would be appropriate with Mars retro; saturn is also in libra, so be nice!)

Depends on the Mars placement, I'd say.

Let's assume that the Mars and all other placements are "equal".  I.e., you have an aries and a scorpio, and their own respective placements offer equivalent advantages.  It solely comes down to the aries-scorpio difference in style.  Who wins?

Depends on the arena.

Depends on who's luckier.

Seriously, these are both very strong and smart signs! Both warriors in their own rights.

Aries is like an impatient warrior. While Scorpio is like a spy, when will he/she attack? Where?

But since I'm a Aries Mars 1st house I don't like being indecisive. So I'll have to pick Scorpio.

Elsa--depends depends depends!  My grandparents need depends   Did you have anything more specific in mind, any further thoughts on arenas (with respect to Aries or Scorps)?

What does anyone else think, how would Aries/Scorps pursue arenas (as part of overall strategy)?  What arenas would they prefer?  How well could each adapt to the other's turf?

Toni--thank you for your input!  I figured the matchup would be more interesting than, say, Scorp vs. Gemini or Aries vs. Pisces (Gemini or Pisces aren't lesser signs, just less martial-minded).

Aries blows up and than blows over - Scorpio never forgets.

Aries might very well win the first round, but Scorpio will plot revenge, bide it's time, and strike when Aries never sees it coming!  (being melodramatic, I know!)

If Aries throws the first punch, Scorpio goes down.

Scorp in a Suit, I think Pisces makes a better Ninja than Scorpio! You see, Pisces is ruled by Neptune. Sneaky sneaky:.

And Gemini? I think they are 10X a quicker thinker than Scorpio or Aries! They'll leave Aries and Scorpio guessing what the heck happened. What about Virgo? They're so detailed they'll find fighting moves that Aries and Scorp never thought of.

You see, I don't believe that Aries/Leo/Scorpio are the strongest signs. I think every sign is strong! It's the person fighting that is weak, not the sign.

But every sign has it's weakness and I think we can use it against the sign/person we're fighting.

Elsa--interesting insight, very helpful My only question is inspired by Dorothy's comment--if Scorpio is down, is s/he down for the count?

Toni--"You see, I don't believe that Aries/Leo/Scorpio are the strongest signs. I think every sign is strong! It's the person fighting that is weak, not the sign."  Couldn't agree more!  It goes with what I said, that they "weren't lesser signs, just less martial minded".  After all, Gemini is ruled by Mercury, not Mars.

Nonetheless, you raise interesting points.  Aries vs. Taurus vs. Gemini vs. etc... what would happen in Toni's battle royale?

If it is an argument, it could go on for centuries.  Both are stubborn and tenacious and proud.  In a fist-fight, it would be a spectacular showdown.  But, being a Scorpio, regardless of how much punishment is taken, I'd try to be like the Black Knight in Monty Python & The Holy Grail:  "Come back here, I'll bite your kneecaps off!"

Aries will Give the Slap or the Punch....

Scorpio terribly angry but will not hit at that time.....BTW dont be surprised if in the next few days the Scorpio will try to get someone else "Slap/Hit you back" for the revenge... 

I know a Scorpio gurl....She was once slapped by her brother......later she managed to get him thrashed by her sister's husband on a different matter...to his bewilderment...

Scorps wait very patiently and can hit you indirectly when you least expect or when you are most Vulnerable (they understand peoples weakness very well)... 

Scorpio would definitely win, but in *a certain way*

Think of it this way...

Have you ever seen two Aries in a fight?  One ends up with a black eye, the other gets a broken nose.  

Have you ever seen two Scorpios in a fight?  One ends up paralyzed, and hes the winner.

I'm surprised that Aries only got one vote so far, and all the rest would give it to Scorp.  (BTW, I appreciate the explanations as to respective styles--it helps me get a feel for each).  I half expected the loud and proud Aries to get the lion's share of attention.

IMHO the Aries archetype has the advantage of broader horizons.  Also, Aries has louder volume, where Scorpio would rely on a deeper bass.

As an aries who has fought with a scorpio I find that how quickly I get over and move on with things as something that is important. The scorpio is still fuming 5 years later and I've already moved on and lived my life.

I once knew someone who said that a Capricorn could beat both those signs easily. I could see that.

Aries would win but only because they would say something off the cuff to win the fight and Scorpio would take it to heart. Aries say things (I know, I am one) to simply win not because they care about the issue at hand but rather the potential victory.  I always have to watch my words with scorpios- one of their best qualities is their sincerity and they take everything you say as if it came from your heart. 

An astrologer friendof mine....who is a Scorpio  says that from his personal knowlegde as well as years of professional experience, he would not mess with three signs even if you paid him (and this does not include Scorpio or Aries):

Capricorn-

cold,hard strategy. Never a moment doubting himself or his/her authority, but if you attack , he/she thinks you are undermining his/her authority does not take too kindly to that. The feelings are also easy to detach so no appeals will win you sympathy.

Libra-

because according to my friend,Libra is very martial.They just don't believe in starting a fight unfairly.The  characteristic fairness stems from an attempt to weigh all options before the finality of battle( hence the scales symbol). They also are strategists.But what makes a slighted Libra dangerous is his value of principals over individuals.I know this because I am one and that is the truth.Once you have gotten a Libra to the point of feeling justified about bringin you down,he says, then you are in serious trouble.They will not stop because the principal drives them.

Pisces-

According to him probably the most dangerous sign because they intuit everyone's weakness and if they are out for you, the effect is like dripping water on rock. They will simply undermine you to the point of delirium. Like a psychic "gaslighting". They play on your softest, achiest spot while looking totally innocent.Sneaky is right. 

On the Scorpio/Aries thing...I think Aries will win if sheer force is the issue. Scorpio will have more staying power though.But if anyone can recuperate and move on from a Scorp's sting, it will probably be Aries who will be off to conquer something else immediately. Then , maybe the "victory'"is not as  sweet for the Scorp?

Scorp is a Fixed and Extremist sign and hence shud win....

The only sign which can create problems for them is the Taurus if provoked as they can be the BULL.:) 

Thanks for the further responses, folks.

Roxanna & Neptunian--I appreciate your outside-the-box, thoughtful responses

i'd say it depends. both have the influence of mars and if you'd like, pluto. Aries is the warrior and go-getter but Aries has little follow through. It'll perhaps start a fight for the heck of it with scorpio and later move on to something else. while Scorpio lurks in the shadows upset at its blow and totally plots revenge. By the time Scorpio actually makes a move and tries to kill the Aries, it may have been long enough for the Aries to regroup and get its act together so it may be ready for another altercation. Hard to say. If you were to bring this issue up with a Taurus and one of the two, i'd give it to Taurus hands down.

i have to agree with neptunian.  particularly about libras.  whoa.

as an aries with a pisces mars who's engaged scorpios... it takes some practice...  and i would never want to face down a scorpio in their den.  never.  pisces is patient though.  subtle.  hard for even a scorpio to see, because it's diffuse, rather than deep.  an aries does have the benefit of a (relatively) quick recovery.  doesn't forget how much it hurts to get stung, though...

A Leo's and Scorpio's biggest weakness is their egos.

I'm a Scorpio rising and my boyfriend has Sun in Aries and I definitely feel the difference between us. He'll say something so offensive without even thinking about it, and I never forget it. I bring up stuff he said to me 7 years ago!! And the pain is just the same as it was then.

I think they are a pretty equal match. Aries has the confidence to strike first and strike hard, and they recover quickly. Scorpio is more observant and strategic so in the long run they can do some serious damage. Scorpio is also more twisted and so can really mess with Aries' head, but they can't understand how Aries can bounce back so easily.

hmm.. interesting. I'm a Scorpio/Aries blend ( Scorpio Sun, Aries Moon + Mars conjunct ) so I think i would be a bit biased. Most of my best friends are aries... linda goodman said something about Aries being a defensive sign while Scorpio is the offensive... let me find the quote ... and Hey! She's an Aries Sun/Scorpio Moon... so that cuts the bias :) 

"Now, if you know anything about astrology, you know that's not a typical reaction from an Aries employer.  Or any other kind of Aries person.  Rams don't back down for anyone.  

Aries instinctively absorbs the message, which is 'danger.'  Ah, DANGER!  It's the one word that will excite the Ram to action, so the initial caution is soon replaced by the Mars forward charge, rising to meet the challenge thrown down.  It's almost always a mistake.  When it comes to an actual showdown, a Ram is tougher, louder and more emphatic than a Scorpion.  But when things get to that point, the typical Scorpion will simply disappear, wrapped in aloof silence, leaving Aries to ponder the same old mystery.  Did he (or she) leave in recognition of defeat - or because I went too far?  In other words, even if you appear to win with a Scorpio, you'll never be sure.  You'll always have to guess.  "

If you'd like to read the rest, it's here

In other words, it's not "cut & paste" ... both are ruled by Mars, yet have different strategies about it.

@neptunian. Interesting point. I'm a pisces and when I'm angry at someone I stop at nothing to bring them down. Your scorpio friend is quite right. I'm (as are other pisces) intuitive and I know what makes people thick. If you know what makes people thick you know how to hurt them on a more personal level than just delivering the first or hardest punch.   

I personally wouldn't mess with Libra either. They're rational and strategic and can carry out plans perfectly since they don't have messy emotions blurring their minds all the time. Also their charm and excellent manners make them very convincing and persuasive to others. They can convince anyone of anything. They're truly very though opponents.

I've never fought  a Scorpio before because I absolutely adore them. As for Aries: very combative but very simplistic and therefor predictable as well. I don't really fear them as much as I fear the more intelectual signs. They're  just not very hard to figure out and they're easy to manipulate because of their temper. I think the less emotional a sign is the better oponent they make.  

Welcome, dorchid! :)

Haven't you people forgot about detached and surprising Aquarius?

You don't know where or when they're gonna hit next AND they don't let their emotions get in the way.

I didn't forget about aquarius but I've never met any that was persistent enough to win a fight (and I know they're a fixed sign). It's like their too detached to care about actualy fighting for something. I seriously have never seen an Aqua fight, but maybe that's just me.

I see what you mean fajalobi78.

But IF they cared, do you know how dangerous they'd be? Lol.

Now that you mention it, is Aquarius a lot like a Zero Calorie version of Scorpio?

Honestly I think if they they had to fight or they were atacked they'd just figure out a way not to fight. I guess the only way I can think of an aqua fighting is if you don't define fighting as solving a problem via voilence. If you'd define fighting as persisting in achieving a goal no matter what method you employ they'd be excellent fighters because they're excellent problem solvers. 

But I can't see them as dangerous since I don't think they'd even opt for violence even if it was the best option. As you can see I'm a bit puzzeled by Aquas. They're like aliens to me. I'm puzzeled by them but I can not relate to them because of our inate differences. It's I like live underwater (I= pisces) and they live in their spaceships, I speak Dutch and they speaks klingon et cetera. I could write a whole book of questions about Aquas. But don't worry I won't write a book about Aquas. Happy new year btw!!!! ( It just hit me I haven't wished anyone that yet on this forum)

@ Scorp in a Suit ...thanks

@ fajalobi78...first boyfriend was a Pisces with Cap moon-dangerous. It's been about about 10 years since we first broke up, but I still keep finding out things at this stage that have made me rethink our entire relationship.I mean, he keeps playing on my feelings in the subtlest way, even with all this time and distance even though i have long since moved on.I've found myself wondering if he hates me, but then I can't even prove that.

Talking about Aries' predictability...I find that it may sound strange, but when Aries and Libra clash...Libra wins. At work, I saw an Aries and Libra in action.The Aries is generally disgusted with the Libra (who by the way, is a loser).So Aries sits and glares at Libra.Libra chuckles uncomfortably and strikes up a convo (very typical).Aries stares and half nods. Libra leaves, comes back...forces the Aries to engage in a conversation by joking, asking questions and being super syrupy. Aries spits out the retorts and glares.Then, I put my head down at my desk...next thing you know Libra is in Aries' face...loud and aggressive and persuasive about something.2 secs later, Libra is out the door.What just happened?

Libra's passive aggressive tactics to lure Aries in always works.If you do not engage a Libra, then they feel as if they can start with you.So, they force you to acknowledge them by being nice, but always with a challenge in their eyes.Then they strike at the right moment when they feel it is justified and fair (in their mind) .All the while there is a detachment about the whole thing.

Another example, myself (Libra) and another Aries coworker who seems to have been a little obsessed with me. I coldly and clearly let him know on several occasions that I didn't dislike him as much as I didn't care what happened to him.He wanted to hit me.I just know it.Seeing that i was directly responsible for his income-earning level, I was exacting and fair with him at all times, further exasperating him.Finally, after he had an outburst on the phone several months later I calmly let him know that I would not be working with him any longer. I also informed my boss that I felt unsafe around him.This cut his income by about 80 percent.He left me no choice because of his aggressive behavior, but I have to say that I was honestly not driven by emotion.What scares me is that all his appeals as well as my other coworkers' appeals (including my boss) have done nothing to erode my resolve.It's like I just cannot feel for the guy.The principle being that he went after my job when I politely shrugged off his advances and he kept coming for me.If he had to get physical, he would kick my ass but not even that makes me feel anything, so I will always win.It may sound  a little arrogant, but it's not ego-it's the truth in this case.

Neptunian--if you don't mind me asking, where is your Saturn?  How is it aspected?

Your story just brings to mind that although Aries is ruled by the Sword, Libra exalts the Scythe.

P.S.--your story about the syrupy Libra just cracked me up

I have Saturn in Leo in the 9th, and it is trine my asc. in Sag. and sextile my Libra Sun in the 11th.

@Neptunian Oops Sun pisces & moon cap here as well, but don't worry  I wont play headgames with you. And about the Libra passive agressive I'll infuriate you by being kind to you method, all I can say is amen.

I've seen Libra take tons of crap from someone without ever moving a muscle. Only to strike back at a momen where the other person least expects it. And whenever it's your word against a Libra's: pack your bags. Libra next to Cancer are to me the most manipulative signs. Oh and this doesn't mean I think it's a general description of their overalll character but I feel it 's how they get things done and how they fight.

@fajalobi78 ...wow...that's a little crazy.You kind of never know when the Cappy side will show up...with my ex, it has been with age.

 And you are very right...integrity is something I take seriously as well as sincerity (sag rising).So, to be honest with you when this guy decided to mess with me at work he put the noose around his own neck.Exactly why the owner of the business is still begging me to let him back in...She will not force my hand. Her son who is co-owner said..."I know you, so whatever makes you comfortable man...what can I say?"

Plus, my Scorp moon Taurus mars fiance has promised to "kill" him if he even sets foot near me...but that's a another story!

My vote also goes to Scorpio.  Although I don't think the victory will be very satisfying.

Libra I adore, but when at war, they negotiate the opponents surrender/defeat.  Hopefully the opponent is in on it or at least at the table because Libra always has friends who owe a favor or two.  I don't attack these, one is always better off on their good side.  Respect gets respect here.

When it comes to Pisces what's not to love?  "the effect is like dripping water on rock. They will simply undermine you to the point of delirium."  Neptunian has got that right.  Yet I find that Pisces is as bewildered as they are bewildering and hurting as much as they hurt, going crazy to drive you crazy and so forth.

@neptunian: Well it's not so much  question of when the Cappy side will pop up. With me it's like the cappy side is always present. It's like my sun is the general but my moon the lieutenant, if you know what I mean. My sun decides what to do or to feel and then my moon decides how I do or feel. Since pisces and caps are worlds apart emotionally this sun moon combo has proven to be difficult at times for me. But there are aslo advantages to being a cap moon. I actually have work ethic and a sense ambition.

@eleven: very good point, when I'm bringing somebody down it ussually has resulted in my own downfall as well. Pisces should always stay away from negative energy. Even when they are using it against somebody else it has a negative effect on them as well. It's not that I'm not effective in fighting but when it results in my own downfall you have to ask the question of wether or not it's worth the battle.