Ok, this isn't about politics so much, but about reactions to politics. Not about political affiliations!

 See, I live in the US and I want to stay well informed, active and protective of the freedoms I do have. Soo...I have people around me who watch news shows all the time, heated debates. I try to listen, but all I can hear is "*buzzword, buzzword, bad people! buzzword! Socialism! Irrational Mobs of Protesters! buzzword" I try to think about what I hear, but I lose count of dubious arguements.

 My reaction's ridiculous- I hyperventalate and feel like I'm being attacked. That's no good! Why can't I just accept passionate debate? Why do I have to feel like they're talking about me when they're talking about the Degenerate Evil forces on the other side? Can anyone relate to this? How do you deal with it without tuning out? Can you deal with it? Or do you just have to ride it out, part of the craziness in the sky?

With my ton of Libra planets I'd say "there's good on every side." Except that might not be true. Sometimes moderation doesn't work, and sometimes there really is a right and a wrong side. I feel like a wimp and a traitor and I don't know why.

I just have to tune out and let the blathering go on without my observation.

There may be good on every side but civil discourse has flown away.

Our first amendment rights have given us permission to compare people to Hitler (who killed 6 million people because he thought they were impure) given us permission to lie and scream at other people, (who do in fact, deserve some respect) and verbally insult and injure others without regard to all those nice things like politeness, decorum, those things your mother taught you before you got to kindergarten. 

What we have now is a situation where debate doesn't work and working together results in a standoff.

I get pretty upset listening to it too. I'd like to take every single one of these people one at a time and first, clear up the things they are ignorant about (for example, the President does not want to kill old people) and then remind them that they are not acting civilly any more.

But that isn't going to happen. I am really hoping that this next month will turn a lot of this nasty stuff around.

Remember, a certain population of americans have been "sleeping" for about 12 years. They have been accepting as gospel the words of a few men who do not have our country's best in mind. They are starting to wake up. And what they are learning is not pleasant.

Hi Beth I have in , but there is likely more to it than that. I would rather not debate. Generally I do not get any mileage in convincing someone of my point of view. I can see many points of view and I guess it is inflexibility that I am not fond of. One of Elsa's blogs was about mutable bastards, I think I am one of these. I respect people that have strong points of view if they voice these with intelligence and tact. [Maybe I am a little to PC sometimes.] Repeating a point of view or saying it louder or wrapping it in more emotion does not make it any truer. I allow people a wide berth. I believe that I am generally good at defusing the emotion of these situations, but otherwise tuning out or retreat work for me.              

Hah, Rand "Mutable Bastards." I am certainly one of these. I think Lao Tzu said arguing is useless. Or something like that. I don't think it's totally useless, but most of the time people argue from their life experiences and their minds won't be changed by words only. PC- I think that we'll be seeing a backlash against political correctness with Pluto in Capricorn. May be wrong but it's a guess.

 And Mimitabby,

I agree with you about the sleeping- it's hard to get any real picture of what other countries are like just by watching the news. So much is or has been devoted to celebrities and irrelevant stuff. I don't think arguing could convince someone, though, especially not if they're clinging to a strong belief for emotional reasons. I do see the suspicious rhetoric coming from both sides, though.

With Saturn going into Libra, I would think that intelligence and tact would be making a comeback...

"most of the time people argue from their life experiences and their minds won't be changed by words only."

Thanks for this. Very, very true, imho.

Where's your Mercury?

just for clarification, the "mutable bastards" remark was in a comment to a post, not something elsa said. I remember it clearly because i am one of 'em, too with an exceptionally mutable chart. but i thought it was funny.

i'm pretty good at tolerating a wide range of viewpoints. (maybe 'cause i'm a mutable bastard? ha!) but i shouldn't take any of the credit. it's really my husband. he absolutely listens to everything under the sun and investigates the facts behind what he hears. i haven't ever met anybody with the range of curiosity and tolerance for viewpoints both different from his own and even those other people dismiss as crazy.

man. he can flip back from one to the other (and does) without blinking an eye. it actually amazes me and it used to make my head hurt but i've learned there's something to gain from that.

it used to drive me INSANE but now i find that it really helpful to listen to such diversity and pick out the points of different perspectives and come up with a more rounded view. not to say i don't have my biases. duh. but it's broadened my perspective a lot and gave me more appreciation for other viewpoints.

i'll admit feeling prickley when i hear one of my own viewpoints vilified, though, or my plantary placements for that matter. i may not say anything when somebody talks about how bad virgo sucks, but you can bet it sticks with me.

i am feeling very sensitized to all the debate, i am assuming because saturn/Uranus really sets of my chart. what's tweaking me the most isn't the wide range of opinions, but it's being told by folks (even kindly) what I believe (um, I'm the expert) and how i'm wrong or misinformed in reaching my conclusions. it's one thing to present a different case. it's another to try and tell me what my case is, y'kno?

the value of independent thinking is very personal to me and something i've made significant personal sacrifices for in my life. so having others tell me "what i think" or "why i think it" is an issue to me.

User, if you were asking about my Mercury it's in Libra, conjunct Saturn. So yeah. Be fair or else. I didn't mention my Moon conjunct Neptune- that's probably really what most of my reaction's about.

 Goddess, Yes! Exactly- being told what you believe and what they think you're really thinking is just annoying. More than annoying, especially if you're the type to start wondering if it's really true, you know. It even bothers me when I see someone doing it to other people. You're boyfriend's awesome for being able to stay calm and check things out- though I know how annoying totally calm people can be sometimes. (Dating a Libra sun.)

 And about Saturn in Libra- yeah I expect politeness to become more important, but does Pluto trump Saturn or something? Saturn makes the rules, but Pluto's the real power...does that sound right?

my man's jam-packed with the virgo and he's all about logic. logically, just because a lot of people discount an idea, it doesn't mean they don't have any points. he looks for the points wherever he can find them.

maybe it's his 7th house jupiter. he's always looking to expand his understanding of how others think.