Hello, everyone! :)

I'm Ivana, and I am new here... i have bunch of questions for you concerning...everything :D 

I'm totaly puzzled with my own natal chart...but i'm the beginner in astrology so I would really use some help from you, guys :)

I will start with this: do I or do I not have Cardinal Grand Cross in my natal chart? Do I have one or more :D? is it possible to have more that one?

Does the Ascendent makes the Cross or not? I am asking this beacuse on one picture i can see the Cross (this one)  and

in the other I don't:  

Do i have bunch of T-squares without the Grand Cross(es?!) or not?

:)

Welcome, Ivana.  Yes, that's a Cardinal Grand Cross in your chart. :)

It depends on what school of thought you're on re: Mathematical points being part of a major aspect configuration.  Some astrologers don't use the AC, IC, DC, or MC when factoring in a T-square, Grand Trine, Kite, etc.  - some debate that hypothetical/mathematical points can receive energy but can't themselves generate an aspect because they are not physical bodies.  Think of it this way: because of the way the AC/DC axis and MC/IC axis tend to square one another, if you have even a single planet conjunct an angle it would frequently create a Grand Cross under this line of thought.  You can see why people don't always buy into this idea that angles should be counted in a major aspect pattern.

You definitely have a T-square consisting of Saturn, Neptune, Jupiter, the Sun, and Mars - whether or not you elect to take the Grand Cross due the tie-up with the Ascendant is up to you.  What I would do is research the differences between a Cardinal T-square vs. a Cardinal Grand Cross and go from there.  

Cool, you're the opposite to me

Libra Sun with Aries Rising!

Never met one before!

Reposting ...

RLAS -- wasn't that what you were looking for in a previous post? I might be remembering wrong... universe has answered? :)

Ivana -- a lot of the stuff online about grand crosses is really depressing. Don't buy into it. You know those people who's lives are stupid easy and everything is done for them? They're generally rotten people, aren't they? I mean, at the best, they're just lazy because they've never had to work. If you consider yourself to have a grand cross, don't think all those "red lines" are bad. They are the work to do in order to make you a better person. :) 

blessedwhitney - Yes !

@Rising, Ivana's chart ruler (MARS) is also right on her descendant - which gives the chart another libra/mars flavour to it! Y'all should compare personalities. :D

I also have a Cardinal T-Square/Grand cross...

It would be a definite, clear Grand-cross if only my ascendant was a few degrees later!

The missing point in my T-Square, is inside my first house! So I consider it half-Grand-Cross half-T-Square.

>> Elsa - Thank you, Elsa :)
 

>> Alethea - ahaa... so...I choose my cross? xD

thanks for the information, I will look up... but, I'm still confused...if I have the Cross, is it from:

1) ASC- Jupiter - Sun - Saturn

 2) ASC - Jupiter - Mars - Saturn

 3) ASC - Jupiter- Sun - Neptune 

4) ASC - Jupiter - Mars - Neptune ???
 

... that's what I meant when asked if a person can have more then one cross...can I have four? ... and which one is The one? Can someone explain this to me... 

>> Well, hello, there RisingLibra  Greetings from Aries Rising!

Your chart is also rather interesting!
 

>>> blessedwhitney: Thank you :) I really needed to read that cuz I'm thinking like that, too. Crosses ain't for sissies 

There are several people who are on the boards who have grand crosses and are doing quite well.  You should search the threads on grand crosses to learn more.  Annalisa has one and she's written some good stuff on how to work with your grand cross.

I'm not an expert so can't answer your question about how many grandcrosses you have - 1 or 4. That being said, I have a t-square with multiple planets involved and I've kind of assumed, I just had one t-square and that the leg of the t-square that hits my stellium counts as 1 leg, not 3 legs.  Not sure that helps though!  I will wait to hear what others say.

I think if you you count in the AC as a part of the cross, then yes you have 4 Grand crosses.I for example have two t-squares. Sun/Mars/Uranus and Sun/Mars/Neptune, astro.com lists them both even though Uranus/Neptune are in the same sign and conjunct. They are part of two separate t-squares.

Whether you're counting them as T-squares or Grand Crosses, they function as one huge unit.  They're treated as one because for all intensive purposes the energy in the conjunctions acts as a blended force.  I have a similar setup with my T-squares - 3 seperate pairs of conjunctions, one comprising each "leg".  Though they may be listed individually on astro.com or wherever, from an interpretational standpoint you view it all as one unit.

Thank y'all very much  I'm going to explore them

Oh my god. You have my exact chart.

It's the worst chart there is, unfortunately. We have to work twice as hard to achieve half as much.

Yes, you could argue that it makes you work hard, but the end result is less than someone with a better chart, anyway.

Less buck for your bang.

dear Scar,

i have a scar on my forehead...

Reading some of your posts, it seems to me that I was like you 5-7 years ago.

All so impulsive, so full of fire, all so quick at concluding and labeling ... and this speed of mine was only prevented me to see the bigger picture. 

And to see myself as who I am, as the matter of fact.

  But listen to me: "we" does not exist here.

You exist, I exist, and our natal charts are totally different because they were made in a totally different life contexts.

Context of your life affect your chart, my life context influence my chart. I'm beginner in astrology, but I'm not so naive to easly conclude: 

"Oh my god. You have my exact chart. It's the worst chart there is, unfortunately. We have to work twice as hard to achieve half as much."   

 wtf?

You are still in egocentric phase.... You did not even bother to ask me some questions, to investigate, to... COMMUNICATE with OTHER, my dear Libra. To get to KNOW how I use energy from "our" chart.

...As I suppose you and I have similarities, I will give you some advice...The only thing you need to learn is to slow down. To... ask and listen.

You should learn to think and to reflect about your actions and feelings, and most importanly how do you affect on other people."We" have a strong impact on other peoples lives. That's a huge responsibility, you know. Think about that.

Having  Moon in Sagittarius (Mine is in the ninth house) you have a potential to see the big picture.In the past, I was prevented by my firery speed to see the bigger picture. Eventually, when you get exhausted from yourself, and from all that unconcious egocentrism (I really believe that you're not as close as aware how egocentric you seem)  maybe, just maybe you'll transform this sentence:

"Less buck for your bang." into something more... Librarian. Maybe "More love for my friends/family from me?"

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong here? Maybe you're not egocentric at all? Maybe you're just focused on money and achievement, cuz money is important to sustain life... which is normal? and you get all nervous and worrired when you see all the red lines of your chart? dunno...

In my case, at least, its not about the achievement and money..., but about acceptting the difficulties and working at building my charachter. As well as learning about modesty. It has freed me from a lot of tough things, and brought me lots of love and friends.

Being a Libra, that makes me happy, and I think that's the point.