I have always found beauty and style in women and men of all weights and heights.  I have always been offended by people using words like "fat" or "skinny" to describe others and find they are very  negative messages.  I think great beauty and wonderful style comes in all sizes and I admire people for  their style, not their weight.

Have you ever been called "fat" or "skinny?"  Do you feel heavier people cannot be attracive or stylish?  Do you refer to yourself using negative words like "fat" and "skinny?"  What are your thoughts on this subject?

Yes, both (ha ha), and no, I'm not offended. When I was young people used to ask me if I was anorexic (fast metabo - too bad that changed!) and it used to make me feel self conscious. But never offended. It annoys me that we can't just say it how it is. The people wheeling themselves around in Walmart are FAT. I didn't say they were assholes, just that they were fat. Because they ARE. These days, my ass is looking a little FAT. I'm okay with saying it this way.

I have a book that I like to read my son that's from the 1970s. It uses the word FAT to describe the piggy in the story. So refreshing.

I have another book, from modern times, that informs the child that he NEEDS to do a few things before he goes to bed, like take a bath, brush teeth, etc. I like to change that language when I read it to him. No, little bunny in the book, we don't NEED to do anything, including stop using words that were perfectly acceptable when the world was a better place.

Rant over.

No one has ever said anything to me........................

interesting rant, Bananas! Have at it!

Oh, but let me get back to your initial question, Annalisa. First, I don't mean to offend YOU because you find those words fat and skinny offensive yet I don't. I'm certainly not going to run up to someone who is heavier and tell them I think they're fat, or vice versa. What I mean is, those words don't both me, but I'm not the kind of jerk who would purposely hurt someone if it would bother THEM. I'm trying to find a good comparison here but I can't. You might say, "I saw a fat lady fall through a window" (because I did) but you wouldn't say to your friend, "You're looking fat in that outfit." But it's okay to refer to YOURSELF as fat, if you feel that way, ie "I look fatter after my big binge this weekend."

Second: sure, overweight people can look attractive... I can think of a whole slew of larger, err, fat people (but that's not the appropriate word for this context) who I'd love to be blessed with their looks. Also... if someone knows how to dress, then they can certainly find flattering clothing regardless of their size. The people who look "fat" are the ones stuffed into too-small outfits, those who present themselves in a tasteless manner. Or the "skinny" ones maybe have too much bone on display. But certainly there are ways to camo the rough spots while playing up the good parts.

Not to mention, it's true - people are attracted to bodies of all kinds. Some men prefer a woman with a little meat on her bones. Others like, well... just the bones (my dad, for example). I do think beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I wish so many people weren't offended by the words fat, skinny, etc.

Hope that comes off as less assholeish than my prior post.

Okay: maybe what truly annoys me about taboo words that used to be acceptable is the ruckus people today seem to make of it. For example, Sarah Jessica Parker and her public banning of the word fat being used by her child.

I have a kid now too, and yes, I will tell him that it isn't nice to call someone fat because it might hurt their feelings. But in the interest of colorful description, the words "fat" and "skinny" are just words to me -- and they're still okay in my book.

I completely understood your post, rant!  I know the feelings you have are valuable in their own right.  You are correct when you say that things can be very P.C. and we can loose honesty when that happens.

I am married to a man who thinks completely like you and it does not bother me a bit.  I am open to all thought processes especially with regard to fashion and body image.

I have been hurt when called "skinny" by people saying it  in an insulting way.  This can be hurtful  when you, like myself, are a dancer and it's your  job  to be  thin as well as what happens when you work!  I was always hurt by the people upset at me for being thin.

Now I  don't care so much.

I do appreciate your ideas, Bananas. You will find I can entertain thoughts different than my own but I agree with most of  yours.

Oh, also: I'm avoiding your medical thread, Annalisa, because I can't deal with it... but I do want to say that I'm pulling for you all the way! You may want to look into some holistic ways to boost your immunity once that's all over.

(sorry for the deviation)

Thank you, Bananas. I have plans regarding how to restore my immune system so I'm thinking that way. I'm sorry the thread bothers you in any way! I know that sort of thread is not everyone's cup of tea!

Thank you for your good wishes!

I guess anything can hurt if it's said in a mean way, right? My mom used to grow a huge vegetable garden when I was little, and that was thrown back at me in a hurtful way as a kid. This was "strange" to people -- they called me "vegetable" in a taunting way, meaning to be unkind. Can you imagine??? So, it's all in the intent.

The "thread" doesn't bother me, I completely understand your need to be public about it, share the experience and get some support from others. I'm just saying that I get all freaked out by medical stuff so I try to look at it only minimally. But it doesn't mean that I don't care because I do. I'm glad to see you keeping your spirits up and inviting intriguing dialogue around here.

Yes, I see your point!  That would be hurtful!  It is strange how different things can be used to hurt us and I  feel much of that is based in jealousy.  I think that jealousy can be the worst emotion ever, just my opinion.

I can't imagine why you would be taunted in such a way but again, I see that it could hurt! We all must  have our  areas where we have been vulnerable!

Definitely jealousy... I'm sure that all the people who called you skinny were just coveting your wonderful figure and dancing talent!!

Thanks for adding your thoughts to  this  thread. Believe me, it was interesting to  read your ideas!  Again, my husband shares  your thoughts so I find it very interesting.  Honesty is the best policy and if he or you see people in a certain way  then others probably do too! I put up a question to learn of  other's ideas so  I cheer your "rant" and loved it!

I have been called skinny all my life i am close to 175cm and weigh 64 Kg, this used to be 56 five years back :)

so have I, surd.  It can be painful, yes?  The nice thing is that you are probably healthy and will be healthy when you are older.

I'm sorry you too  have had this happen.

Annalisa i never took it to my heart skinny so what didnt matter to me.

Oh yeah i refer myself as skinny, i would be honest that during my teenages i used to think that over weight people cannot be attractive or stylish, i was ignorant and it took me few years to get over it. 

Yes, I do use the words fat and skinny (and obese), since they are descriptive of realities.

I have a Taurus Moon and I'd love to overeat, seriously so, but I don't as I have too much pride to get really fat - I'm as overweight now as I'm prepared to go.  I was this 'fat' as a kid (ie not very) and was often teased about it. I'm aware anorexia is a serious disease and people die of it. Nevertheless there's no point in my book pretending people aren't seriously overweight, or seriously skinny, if they are.

Either is very ugly to me, I mean VERY ugly, so much so I have to turn away, just as I would from an ugly building or piece of 'art': I have Venus conjunct Sun and beauty is extremely important to me. It's an instinctual reaction, as well as partly a response due my visual training.

Classic beauty is dependent on *proportion*, whether it's in people, faces, dogs, buildings, porcelain, fashion or whatever (see links below). Too much of a deviance from the norm, from the 'golden section', is visually disturbing. Fat and skinny people are out of proportion, sometimes seriously so, and are not therefore attractive to look at all to my eye, and I'm not going to pretend otherwise for the sake of some kind of PC sensitivity or 'inclusiveness'. I have the same reaction to fat dogs or cats btw! - and the same worried reaction to very skinny ones as to skinny people with all their bones sticking out!

I'm not talking about a bit of overweight, like 20/25lbs on a medium height person, I'm talking about people with stomachs hanging over their crotch, and arms and thighs almost as wide as they're long. If people want to get seriously fat, or obese, that's their choice, but they have to accept that a lot of people (probably a majority) are not going to find that attractive at all. In truth some of us find it repellent. That's quite apart from the health (and public health) implications.

Being very skinny is less downright ugly, esp since clothes tend to hide the lack of proportion, and is also far more likely to be due to serious medical issues, so my reaction to skinniness is in general less censorious than it is to seriously overweight people. There is in any case a limit to how skinny people can get - they can never get so far out of proportion as obese people often do. I know there are a few people with thyroid and other glandular issues; but the vast majority of people who are fat got that way by over-eating and drinking, esp on junk food, sweet things, and pop.

I'm speaking plainly here since I think it's in the interests of those who are seriously overweight to take a grip, and to understand that the majority (though politeness keeps them silent) do think as I do [in Europe at least... Most Europeans look on the severe obesity of so many Americans with a mixture of horror and ridicule].

Some writings about proportion and beauty:

http://milan.milanovic.org/math/english/golden/golden4.html

http://www.lilithgallery.com/arthistory/european/European-Ideal-Beauty-of-the-Human-Body-in-Art.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_attractiveness

I think its easier to attack a girl who has body issues regardless of weight size. I have been put down for being skinny all the time. And if you enjoy having a healthy lifestyle you are regarded as being strange. But now I tell people I value my life, what about you?

Moon in 2nd house.

@bananas I totally agree with you on the issue and intent of words. I like to cuss a lot, and I get annoyed when people tell me its "bad". I just want to shake them and say "hey it's a made up word". It's like the more they're offended by it, the more I like to do it. Doesn't make sense, huh? I guess I like to test people and push the boundaries when it comes to "wrong" things. Also on the medical thread, I don't like to read/watch stuff that has to do with illness either. How strange there are others out there like me!

This in interesting, unfortunately though I have to agree with the original poster somewhat. Even though words are just words, we give words their power and when we encounter individuals we never know what their past experiences hold.  Back to the original question as someone who cheered, more so I cheered in a gym where we had a gymnastics team and a dance team. If the terms fat came from a coach of one of those three sports then yes I would be offended. Mainly though because, somewhat like the fashion industry, the views of beauty in those three sports (or art, if you consider dance an artform) is skewed, when an individual invests their time in one of those three sports then they are picking up something that is hard to get rid of and that is the idea of beauty. In cheer the expectation that everyone is skinny is there but not that much, for many coaches if you can perform the required skills at an acceptable level (with proper technique) then you are good. Yet with sports like gymnastics or dance the expectation is not entirely the same as cheer, maybe because the two sports are more aesthecially pleasing than cheer. So in order to succeed in rhythmic gymnastics and certain dance styles your body has to be thin so people can see your lines since extra muscle or fat gets in the way of seeing long lines. In artistic gymnastics though the view is somewhat different because you will see more compact or muscular girls (they are not fat by any means) so as long as your lines are beautiful then you are at least ok. Now skinny can be offensive because it can mean that you are just thin to the general public but not athletic enough to actually participate in cheer, gymnastics, or dance. In cheer being just skinny can easily turn into you being deemed useless because someone has to spend the time conditioning you to be strong enough to do the skills. Whereas being fat can also be a hinderance for the some of the same reasons as being skinny. I hope I did not offend anyone and this is interesting.

Very often it happens that this forum has a thread which touches my heart so much I feel any contribution from me won't do justice to it. It's just .... so hopeful/kind/uplifting sort of thing. This is one of them. But i've gotta try anyway because I need to get this out for some reason. :-)

My sister was insulin dependent diabetic from age 10. She was diagnosed the year I was born. She always struggled with weight. And Mom had eight pregnancies in her life, fairly close together, and was overweight for years as a result. She tried to get it off but couldn't. And they both ate like birds mostly. There was no junk food in our home due to the diabetes of my sister. Nobody was eating excessively. We were lucky to have just enough and never had extra food. But it was all healthy stuff, home cooked etc.

Because of this and all the experiences I witnessed both of them having, I've never been able to use the word fat. It really hurts. At the same time, another sister had a perfect knockout body. And I was just little and slim but not skinny or fat. So we had these opposing dynamics in our family and not one of us ever joked about it or made fun of it.

Walmart people....yes I laugh at the jokes sometimes but stopped because it's just not funny really. These people are hurting somehow, somewhere, emotionally or otherwise, something has happened. I feel for them but don't look down on them. This is tough to explain.

Anyway, I understand it all I think and it does hurt. And I wish people didn't say these things but that's the world. I recognize not everyone has the same experiences so usually they just don't understand and are saying stuff they don't realize is so hurtful. Gah. This is such a loaded topic. :-) Very good one though. Thanks for bringing this up.

Welcome, dawnss. :)

Caribou you do bring up great points and this is really a loaded topic.

Thanks Elsa.

Interesting.  

I'm all for lettin' er rip with the labels, and I do.  But there's such a thing as being rude, too.  So I monitor.   I don't look at it as an assault on my free speech,  or PC run amok, or even, as a sad statement about how society has gone downhill because we could be freer with the labels way back when.  (I'm not sure that's so true.  I talk to my old folks about the way back when, and if anything, people were more circumspect, even if they judged like m'fers.)  I look at it as basic human decency. 

Yes, it is a loaded topic; and I'm well aware that many people here will find my views both shocking and offensive; nevertheless I do know from my own experience that what I've expressed is a majority view. It certainly is in Europe - I realise America may have different standards.  But with my ton of Saturn I'm prepared to be the Saturn figure here, as it's a topic on which so few people are prepared to admit what they really feel.

I think it's very sad that the small minority who are grossly overweight due to medical reasons (eg a friend of mine with thyroid problems) get tarred with the same brush as people who can't control their food and drink intake. But in most cases, people do have a choice, just as they have a choice what clothes they wear

I also realise that not everyone has such extreme aesthetic responses as I do; but to some of us, to many of us, for whom visual considerations are paramount, it's something we can't help but feel strongly about. 

The majority can't articulate why a substantial deviation from the norm is visually disturbing in the way I (with my art history training) can, but they feel it as a gut reaction. And, as for the majority, the degree of compassion I feel is somewhat dependent on the cause of the problem.

PS  I wouldn't call anyone fat to their face, nor bring up the topic unless with a very close freind who had say put on a ton of weight, or lost a lot, since I'd last seen them. I would find it unnatural not to mention a decided change in weight, with a really close friend - and I'd want to know if there was a serious medial problem underlying that.

I'm not aware that skinny is a term of abuse btw! - most people I know would think it a compliment to be told they were skinny, unless they were dangerously underweight

when fat women call me skinny in THAT tone, i do find it rather rude. "Oh, you're SO SKINNY."

i'm a little person. what the fuck? like it's my FAULT?

plus, my skin is one of my best assets. so yeah... men LOVE my skin. do they love yours??

i've never said it. but sometimes i wish i would. 

The word "fat" is used quite generously in my circle.

And usually in a negative context. 

My two brothers, both 20something with office jobs in the city, have a "My fat co-worker" contest.  They each have an annoying fat co-worker in their departments, and they'll have a contest, where they have stories/jokes regarding how their fat female coworkers do things that ordinarily would be fine, but because they are 'fat' it's amplified.

They feel justified in doing it, because these women are mean, bitter, and annoying (so say my brothers) and they imitate their voices and everything.

I get mad at them, scold with 'that's not nice' sort of stuff, but I do admit...never to them...that it's funny sometimes.

I've never been called fat though I am. It has been implied but I just roll my eyesbecause that is the most boring, obvious and unoriginal insult ever. I read a really fantastic book called "The Fat-Girl's Guide to Life" a few years ago and the author discussed this very thing. She argued that when people are calling someone "fat" what they are REALLY calling that person is "lazy", "smelly", "dirty", "gross" and since she is none of those things a close friend was shocked when she described herself as fat.

There is a small but vocal and growing fat-power movement out there who are wearing the label with pride. I think it's pretty great though I know most people see it as glamorizing serious health problems.

 I'm 5'6", 105lbs.  Yeah, I eat healthy, and yeah, I get this: "your so skinny!!" alot. 

@sunnysadge,  I can SO relate!  They see you eating a banana, and think you have an eating disorder.  Ugh. 

@Annalisa,  I was a ballet dancer, 8 years, so yeah, got alot of 'your so skinny'!!! comments.  I had muscle definition though, so clearly I wasn't starving myself. 

i got the "flat as a board" thing a lot in school.

but that's ok, because i can go without support except when i'm working out.  underwires hurt.

and, well, when i was pregnant i learned about back strain and i'm just as happy about skipping that.

besides, i eventually figured out that men find me attractive regardless.

...but i spent my teens under the assumption they didn't.  so when guys asked me out i thought it was some cruel practical joke.  really.

I'm not even going to start on the fat/skinny train, personally.  Every time I follow a thread of this nature I end up getting riled and/or offended.  ("Is this the hill you want to die on?"  *smiles*)

I've had FTF friends who had issue with both words, whether fat, skinny, or average.  And I think they're perfectly fine as descriptive -- "I saw a friend of yours at the store today and said hi.  You know the fat/skinny blonde with two sons that you go to church with?  What's her name?  I couldn't for the life of me remember..." -- some people use them as pejorative ("fat bitch" being most prominent, since it seems OK to be slim and bitchy in the US) and that's where the hurt comes in.

My ex's family had a three generation streak of anorexia in the females that his stepmom finally broke.  Discussing weight in that family, especially as a heavy woman, was fraught with tension.  There was always the unspoken judgement, a certain look in the eyes, that I was "defective" for being fat.  :/

Nevermind.  I'm making a new thread about this question.  :)  Sorry if anyone already replied!

When I was little I was very overweight. By the time I was in my late teens I had enough. I lost weight and never looked back. By the time I was 21 I had the body I felt was comfortable with me. I still hurt for those kids who are overweight and are teased because I knew/know how it feels be judged by your weight.

Just want to add, my overweight sister used to call me "skinny" in an offensive/critical way. Our other sister, the gorgeous one, she never criticized. So yeah, double standard. But I was kinder than my older sister :-) lol  So yeah, even those I wouldn't call a label are sometimes quick to use labels negatively towards others.

It's just my personal thing and goes with my overloaded empathy chart and life experience. No judgments here on anyone for how they use these terms. I was just compelled for some reason to voice my point. and it's only right for me I realize! :-)

I don't like that 'skinny' is used as a compliment. Maybe if I were trying to lose weight and being thinner was my goal, I would like it, but it's not something I worry about. For example, during puberty my problem was never weight, but I did have some acne, so that's what my focus was on. My chubbier cousin had extra around the thighs, but her face was like porcelain. You never win.

I wish people would stick to, "You look really good." I have been called skinny or "You're a stick!" but this is the same size I've always been, so I don't see why they're so surprised. It bothers me if people say I eat so little because I eat like a lion, I just don't eat crap. The one I hate the most is "You're so healthy!"

I'd just like to point out that I'm judged, more often than not, on my handicap, which leads some to think I'm a mental defective and others to shun me since it greatly embarrasses them. So I do know what it feels like to be judged for something over which you have no control, and I always treat people kindly, in case that's the case with their bodyweight. People do have different metabolic rates etc.

Usually however it's not... Both of my friends who are seriously overweight (I've only ever had two, it's not that common in Europe outside the 'chav' social strata) got that way through gluttonous over-eating. I watched them do it! One of them, a man, has always enjoyed the nickname 'Twiggy' ;)

Annalisa, I think it'd be right to use those words describing things and not people. Let's say, skinny jeans, fat slice of chocolate pie. I assume people, who use such a mean choice of words, describing other people's appearance, are insecure and unhappy about their own selves. 

Bella, I tend to agree with you.

For those who have been hurt by these words, I relate and I'm sorry.  As we get older we can handle these words better but they can do some damage to young people.

Please, let's make a proper distinction here: using the word 'fat' in itself is merely descriptive of a reality. Some people ARE fat!

Calling someone fat to their face, given the perjorative connotations the word has attracted, is plain offensive and intended to wound. That's worse than bad manners.