I've seen this term come up a couple of times on ElsElsa.

I understood what it meant in a general way and scenarios where a person does this to someone else in a sorta more blatant/obvious way.

But it always kinda bugged me 'cause it feels like there is some aspect of (or maybe a major aspect of) gaslighting that is subtle, manipulative, insidious but most importantly unconcious and habitual (and human nature-y) that I'm not able to exactly pin-point and pick up on. Which kinda makes me paranoid (ha-ha) 'cause it makes me wonder how implicated I am in 'gaslighting' sorts of behaviours---either the giving or receiving it---would I even know?

[Dooo dooOOO dooo doooo...actually, I find the idea that I'm unable to pick up on something like this immediately (in others or myself) truly terrifying & view it as a major handicap to life & interaction & being a better person.]

This article puts it in the context of male/female relationships (individually & societally)---

it's interesting---gets closer to explaining the subtle level it can exist on by narrowing it down to the male/female thing (though, I do think it exists outside of that as well):

http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/why-women-arent-crazy/

I don't know. This is hard for me.

Of course having an emotional reaction should be considered "crazy", but I dont think getting out of control helps solve anything. I'd definitely be the person saying "Relax". I can't handle large expressions of anger or hurt, it's very distracting to me when I'm trying to process. People can and need to go through their emotions, of course and should be allowed to feel those things, but to me, nothing can be solved in an overly emotional state. It simply blocks reasoning.

To me, gaslighting is different from simply trying to solve something, but I think the two often get blurred. There is a way to say "calm down" respectfully and there is a way not to. Respect always helps.

Yeah, that's sorta the thing that drives me nuts about it...what is or isn't 'gaslighting'?

Do we 'gaslight' ourselves?

Aaah! I have to stop thinking about it...my head will explode.

I think gaslighting is being insulting at the same time? Like taking advantage of it?

So, would that mean making someone think they were 'a genius' or 'gawds gift to the world' is different?

What if it was a parent who was unhappy & insecure or deluded in some way and convinces their child that they are amazing - the child grows up full of themself and hate the world for not living up to their genius/gawd given amazingness?

That's sorta similar - but different maybe...the motivations behind the manipulation are whats fascinating to me...and figuring out how and where this behaviour manifests...might be revealing or something.......going to peruse the threads and return to this on the morrow.

http://boards.elsaelsa.com/topic/gaslighting-the-effort-to-drive-the-other-person-crazy-harold-searles

gotta get a hold of that book - reminds me of someone

(says the girl who doesn't want her head to explode...)

Oops! This article was already posted by someone earlier. Sorry for the repeat guys.

As an interesting aside, AMC is playing the movie Gaslight all this month (where the term gaslighting comes from).  :)

@egiya, not to be a contrarian *grins*, but, as someone who gets told to "calm down" fairly frequently, what I see from my side of the fence are a lot of repressed people who don't know how to let their emotions out (especially "dark" emotions).  When someone tells me to calm down, I tell them to ramp up!  ;D

@SaD - No offense. I'm lacking in Fire/Water so the whole emotional argument thing is just so much not in my comfort level. I am able to work AFTER the outbursts and once I'm calm and collected.

No offense taken, egiya.  :)  I just can't talk about gaslighting properly right now (words are elusive), so thought I'd comment on what I could.

I'm air/water, mostly.  Fire sun and Merc, though, so it's not like I'm completely lacking in that arena.  :)  I've found I have to explode on a periodic basis to keep the pipes clear, or I get clogged.  (Heh... plumbing metaphors.  *snort*)  Doesn't work for everyone and, logically, I know that.  Emotionally, though, it still doesn't make sense to me; I think everyone should/would/could feel better after some (more, any) primal screaming and glass-smashing.  :P

@ SaD - I'm with you there! I grew up in a rural area. When I was 16 there was a car that I had wrecked, and so my father kept it around to part out for his similar car. Since he just needed the mechanical parts....well....If I had the place to myself, I would put on leather gloves, find an old 2x4 or whatever and then Go.To.Town! on the front end of that little car! I would scream and yell and hit it until it hurt me to much to go on! Man Oh Man!!! You have no idea how many times in the past 20+ years I've wished to be able to do exactly that to get all the emotions out!!Moon conj Pluto!!!

As far as gaslighting, I experienced it in arguments with an ex. He would start a conversation in a manner that he knew that I would agree with the statements he was making, until, suddenly he would flip things around and was trying to say that I was agreeing to things I hadn't. I say suddenly, but it was always a very elegant trap that I was trustingly led to, and the moment of sudden realization of entrapment was always too late to extract myself. It was all very bizarre and creepy. It used to frustrate the shit out of me because I knew that he was full of it, and yet any move by me resulted in my own destruction. It's hard to explain. And it's only one aspect of an abusive relationship. But I do think that everyone should be more educated about these types of unhealthy and dangerous behaviors.

This is from Wikipedia:

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory and perception. It may simply be the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, or it could be the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.

Posts tagged - Gaslighting.

And this book is phenomenal - Gaslighting, the Double Whammy, Interrogation and Other Methods of Covert Control in Psychotherapy and Analysis

@Elsa: Sweet––looks good. Thanks, I'll check it out.

Yes, it happens in daily life very insidiously, and often socially mandated and ignored when it happens. Covert bullying, power plays, deliberately trying to manipulate and discredit women happens all day long in lots of corporate environments. It's not clearly discriminatory, but to psych them out so they are drained and unable to perform at top levels without burnout.

Your skin would crawl just spending a day behind the scenes unless you are prepared to handle it. It's deliberate especially at first to enforce group loyalty and to bond in almost inperceptible ways so that people are slightly brainwashed and insecure, to remain on edge and to work hard to win the loyalty of others around them while being controlled by senior people. Some thrive in environments like this, they enjoy gaming the system and exerting control over each other.