Halloween Chart Discussion - Lizzie Borden!

posted 3 weeks ago in General
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    1.
    luci

    Lizzie Borden was accused, in Victorian MA, of murdering her father and step-mother in a gruesome and brutal attack with a hatchet. Her step-mother got the worst of it, somwhere in the area of 40 wounds to the back of the head. Her father was killed in the same manner, mangled beyond recognition by the amount of blows to his face.

    There is much speculation as to whether or not she committed the crime, because her alibis changed several times and the crime scene investigation of the time was pretty careless and rudimentary.

    They could never prove conclusively that she did it; but they also never conclusively proved she didn't do it.

    Some say she was in a bitter place because her father was extremely wealthy and yet was a penny-pincher, denying her of the pleasures of their station in life. At times he would have the house servants serve food that had been left warm since the previous day, causing the family to become sick on occasion. 

    Another theory says she feared her father was re-writing his will without her in it, the bulk of his fortune going to her step-mother. She and her sister stood to inherit a lot of money at his death, (and she did become something of a stuffy recluse in her later years as a wealthy woman). She also vehemently dispised her step-mother.

    She was positively identified by the pharmasist as having tried to purchase an extremely quick-acting and leathal poison several days before the murders (which he denied her)  and was seen several days after the crime burning a dress; something people say no Victorian woman would have done. If the dress was ruined beyond wearing, they would have ripped it up for cleaning rags.

    But it wasn't enough to convict her for murder.

    On the other hand, the Borden house had been robbed several weeks before in plain daylight with three family members home and unaware of it until later,  and their barn had also been broken into before.

    Here's her chart:

     

    Do some Google research if you need to and then report back: 

    Do YOU think she did it?  

     
    2.
    kashmiri

    I remember reading a book about that case when I was about 10 years old and being horrified (looked at way too many gruesome things at that age). But what stuck out for me was my feeling she was guilty...again I was 10, so...

     
    3.
    luci

    I'm startled by that clump up inLeo/Cancer, there, myself.

     
    4.
    Liz

    Probably. Libra rising adds the charm.. charm that helped with the doubt.. especially with venus trining neptune in the 6th.. but mars in the 4th opposite the 10th and pluto square moon.. and that time period where she had no other way to express the violence building with the family. She would have stayed for the money.. would also have had to for social reasons.. if she had been at a time when she could have had a job etc. then it might have mitigated the violence in the chart.

    So I say she did it. Hitler also had libra rising. Libras are cardinal and can kill as much as anyone.. usually with charm. :D

     
    5.
    luci

    Nice work Liz...zie. Hahahah. :D

     
    6.
    satori

    now I've got the rope skipping rhyme in my head:

    Lizzie Borden took an axe

    Gave her mother forty whacks

    When she saw what she had done

    She gave her father forty-one...

    two, three, four... 

     
    7.
    Liz

    My mother thinks it was her "illegitimate paternal half-brother named William Borden, as a revenge killing in his failed efforts to extort money from his father."

    Which at first I dismissed until I see that mars is actually in her 3rd house and in capricorn and she has mercury conjunct saturn.. so it's a possibility. See how neptune is connected to both venus and mars though - it could have been her or him. Either way it would have been over money.

    But it's very conceivable that they conspired together so that her bizzarre behaviour was to cover up someone else's behaviour as much as her own. And most probably it was all in the family with so much going on between the 4th and 10th house.

     

     
    8.
    satori

    pluto in the seventh square sun and moon in the tenth?  mars conjunct the IC?  I don't know what I think about it but those aspects are sure interesting.  in fact, it makes me wonder if the birth time is truly known or if it was manipulated to show those things, cos... wow.

     
    9.
    Liz

    Good point Satori.

     
    10.
    luci

    Satori: I didn't know her time of birth so I used noon. It may very well not be that bad.

     
    11.
    satori

    aaaaaaah.  :)

     
    12.
    LisLioness

    Luci, here's the time if you want to do the chart over:  9:46 AM in Fall River, MA, USA.

    I found the time on Astrotheme.  The ASC is 25 Virgo, and The six planets from Cancer-Leo go into the 11th house.  So it's still a top-heavy chart.

    Mars is in the 4th house.  That wouldn't stand out as much if it wasn't in CAPRICORN and didn'toppose the Sun/Venus conjunction in CANCER.

    Neptune is very close to the DSC.  That means someone who's an engima to others and themselves.  I don't think it's much of a surprise that no one could establish any clear motive in this case.

    I personally don't think she did it.

     
    13.
    SaDiablo

    I've always thought she did, and furthermore that there was some incest/sexual abuse thing going on.  It's just the feeling I get every time I read or watch anything about the case.
    Two wealthy, available daughters long past marrying age living at home with very little social interaction then this bizarre double murder?  Yeah... I think daddy was diddlin' his girls and one finally snapped.

     
    14.
    Member Icon
    amy

    SaDiablo, the magazine American Heritage had an article back in the 90's that set out an entire theory of incest and sexual abuse in this case. They theorized that the memory of it came back to her when she hit her mid-30's and she snapped. It was very interesting and really made a compelling argument for it. The article may be available online.

    As far as her being acquitted, in those days people just didn't believe that a woman would be capable of such a thing. Especially given that juries were 100% men.

     
    15.
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    16.
    SaDiablo

    OOH, thanks!  *off to devour the article*

     

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