While still going through my Saturn Return (currently), I discovered that ANXIETY debilitates me in my career, from becoming more creative, and from self-expression. Creativity (which is also part of my career) used to flow so easily on me until I started working full time (Saturn in 6th). Earlier this year, I discovered I may have Adult ADD and this has contributed to my decade-long battle with creative anxiety due to the inability to organize and the tendency to "drift" and become unfocused.

I have Saturn in 6th in Virgo squaring Neptune (9th Sagittarius), trining Uranus (8th Scorpio) and Venus (2nd Taurus). I believe this house rules everyday work - which pretty much indicates that I will be dealing with this issue during this Return. Elsa mentinoed earlier that people with a Saturn/Neptune square are prone to hologram fears - which is pretty much what I've had most of my life :(

Have you struggled with anxiety problems before? What aspects in your chart shows that? Also, I would LOVE to know any coping strategies you may have to deal with this anxiety as I'm looking for more ways to deal with my own!

Lunalie--this is unrelated to astrology (sorry), and I'm not a doctor by any means, but are you by any chance on the pill? 

I had been on the pill on and off for the past 9 years, usually for 2 year increments.  Everytime I got off it was because of the anxiety and depression it gave me.  I've been off for 5 months now and have seen a complete turnaround, almost immediately.  I will never go back on the pill. 

This is not a quick cure but if you get it, it will be permenant (as perm as saturn neptune can get).

Look into non-duality also called Advaita. James Braha (a great astrologer) wrote a book, Living Reality. I reviewed it on my blog so you can search if you like. I caught on via this book - it was a great help to me (a fellow saturn neptune) - in simplist terms your reality is so fluid anyway you may as well believe things are wonderful (the universe is conspiring in your best interest).

 Right now you imagine bad things. You can learn to imagine good things and to trick yourself when anxiety comes...

Hi Shell,

This is very interesting. I've been on the pill since I was 19 because I had very irregular periods (as in: I will not get my periods for 9 months!). I stayed on the pill until I stopped around 2007 when I broke up with my last boyfriend. 

While my moods were very stable, my weight started increasing rapidly, my acne returned, and I did not get my period for  a year. I had to get back on the pill because this was not normal. It was then I discovered that I have ovarian cysts as well as prediabetes. I could've stayed off the pill but because I did not want to go through the risks of taking Metformin, I decided to go back on the pill. 

That's a really good point you're making, actually. I can speak to my endocrinologist about it and see what other options I have. I know I have to engage in a sort of lifestyle change (which is an extreme struggle for me as I'm a bit of an overachiever and am very busy) and I'm working on this right now (I'm taking stress management classes as well). My only fear is that I already feel very unattractive, which hinders my self-expression. And if I get off the pill, I'll balloon up and my acne will return again... and the cysts are likely to start growing... :( 

Thanks for letting me know this though, Shell! I will definitely look into it. I did notice I was significantly calmer in the 1 year I was off the pill!

I have experience with this one!  i have anxiety/excessive worrying tendencies ( but not depression.) In addition to a stellium in Virgo, I have an overactive imagination courtesy of my Pisces Sun & Mars.  I also have the Saturn/Neptune square you mention, although the Virgo worry trait/Pisces imagination were what were highlighted as causative (when Elsa was nice enough to opine on this for me a while back.)  In my case, too, it was career issues that were the focus of my anxieties.  My solutions aren't practical for everyone in that I left my career.  However, for a more "everyman's solution", I think hard physical activity, as intense as you can do it, is not given enough credit.  Yoga, meditation, breathing - all that stuff is great, but I think that intense physical activity is even better for this type of anxiety.  You have to wring that stuff out of your muscles, literally,while gasping for air. (well, I do anyhow!)  

Hi Elsa,

Thank you for recommending the book. I will certainly look this up in your blog and probably go to the bookstore during my run tonight. :)

As for this:
"the universe is conspiring in your best interest"

Although my thoughts have been predominantly fear-based, I actually understand this very well. There are times that I think this way - for instance when I first moved to Canada on my own. I will look into exploring what type of thought patterns make me think this way and perhaps work on applying it iin every other thought...

You're so right about this.. THis is hard work!

Weird - I am literally studying advaita at the moment as part of a Hinduism module in my degree.  I love the sound of it.  Definitely going to check out the book too.

Good luck, Lunalie.  I have been anxious since a child with all sorts of symptoms but it seems to be alleviating very recently and I put it down to really learning to just be present.  I try to just do the task in hand and not to 'jump out' of it to analyse it.  I have spent alot of time analysing and procrastinating and the upshot is that you go in circles.  Being present seems to be the key.  It really is about being totally in the moment and having gratitude for this moment.  The rest is just make believe.  Hope that makes some kind of sense. 

Hi Crackers!

You said: 

 In addition to a stellium in Virgo, I have an overactive imagination courtesy of my Pisces Sun & Mars.  I also have the Saturn/Neptune square you mention, although the Virgo worry trait/Pisces imagination were what were highlighted as causative (when Elsa was nice enough to opine on this for me a while back.)  In my case, too, it was career issues that were the focus of my anxieties.

I'm starting to acknowledge that Virgo is the "Worrier" of the zodiac. And I know too well about having an overactive imagination (considering I have a Mercury in Pisces)! 

If I may ask, what kind of anxieties did you have in your career? Because I'm in a creative profesion (and my chart is supposedly highly creative), I experience "creative blockage" a lot because I fear "not being good enough." Also, I struggle with very small details a lot - everything gets really fuzzy (ADD). I'm starting to think this is the root of my Saturn/Neptune struggle ;)

 However, for a more "everyman's solution", I think hard physical activity, as intense as you can do it, is not given enough credit.  Yoga, meditation, breathing - all that stuff is great, but I think that intense physical activity is even better for this type of anxiety.

 I started running again :) I can't believe I even stopped due to "anxiety" in the workplace (basically my old job drained the life out of me). I think the yoga/meditation stuff is very helpful though, particularly if you have a very overactive mind... However, running always makes me feel very much at peace... for some odd reason.

Thanks so much for contributing! :)

Bella:

You said:

I put it down to really learning to just be present

I agree, and that's what people around me have been telling me. I have a difficult time living for the present. In fact, a lot of the things I do in my life is so.... future-oriented! Perhaps that's why I'm afraid all the time? 

My therapist recommended that I really learn meditation as this helps bring a person to the present. I will be taking some classes as soon as the Winter semester finishes so I can just focus on my health AND my job. 

Thanks so much!

"Although my thoughts have been predominantly fear-based, I actually understand this very well. There are times that I think this way - for instance when I first .."

Well Saturn Neptune can dream it up or dream it down and coming to really understand this is key. That book is meandering, written in conversation and just of gets absorbed because it a concept that is already embedded in someone like you..

Make your fear like clouds... they appear and they move out see.. just a passing cloud (fear) - nothing to worry about. :)

I agree - hard physical exercise had a major effect on my general health as has daily meditation.  I definitely recommend them both ontop of being present.

I sympathise with being future oriented - me too.  I just try to be strict with myself - it's just now.  Fellow virgo too - big worrier but I find reality is never so bad as the thoughts so now I bin the thoughts and just do stuff.  I think be easy on yourself too - we are all a work in progress and that is as it should be.  Sounds as though you have some really sensible plans to deal with this.

"Make your fear like clouds... they appear and they move out see.. just a passing cloud (fear) - nothing to worry about. :)"

I'm starting to understand this concept of "fluidity" that you speak of earlier just by this statement alone. Hmmm :) Thanks so much Elsa!

I think be easy on yourself too - we are all a work in progress and that is as it should be. 

I think the problem with Virgo (and I'm actually chatting with one as we speak) is the tendency towards perfectionism. I guess that's what stresses some of us out with this aspect. We keep forgetting that we aren't perfect- and that we are works in progress. 

Thanks so much Bella!

Sorry for the delay in replying to your question.  I wandered off to read reviews on Amazon of the book Elsa mentioned here, and one thing just led to another. . .

My career was not creative, at least not in the traditional sense.  My anxieties revolved around the potential for making mistakes as the work carried lots of responsibility and involved handling other peoples' problems (substantial ones.) 

 I too have anxieties around catching details because I'm moving in a fog lots of the time, which I attributed to being a Pisces.  But I do have Saturn square Neptune so maybe that's a factor.

 I think the tenor of my anxieties in my career differ a bit from yours due to the pressures you face of trying to be commercially creative.   Creativity comes with enough challenges without that extra element to it.  You're strong just to be in there doing it, ya' know.

Oh, I have definitely struggled with anxiety (depression and OCD, too). but I've pretty much had it since I was a kid. I have Saturn in the 6th house (Libra) conjunct Jupiter and trine Venus (10th house Aqua).  I think my moon in Gemini makes me more prone to anxiety too, and also my mars and mercury are in Pisces... 

 I am very future oriented, as well... I am not familiar with Advaita but the concept she was describing sounds very much like some of the things I read in a book called City Dharma by Arthur Jeon.  Here are some quotes that gave me a lot to think about and have been immensely helpful:

"Use your mind as the tool it is, designed to solve problems and be creative, rather than a swamp generating the mosquitoes of neurotic thought."

"The past and future can only exist in the mind.  Think about it.  The past is a memory.   The future is imagination.  Only right now exists."

When I first started yoga a few years ago it was a class based on a protocol developed by the University of San Diego on Yoga for Anxiety and Depression.  It helped me in soooo many ways.  Eventually I started doing therapy with my Yoga teacher (he was a Clinical Psychologist and also a Professor of Psychology at UCLA.) and we would incorporate a lot of the meditation and breathing techniques from class into the session.  When I've struggled with depression, working out always helped me feel better, but with anxiety, for example in yoga, things like the breath of fire, made me feel even more anxious.

I really think that with anxiety it's all about recognizing the thoughts, acknowledging that they are there, but not attaching any emotion to them.... like Elsa said, watch them come and go like clouds going across the sky.  We really are the ones controlling our thoughts, it shouldn't be the other way around :)

The Creative Fire by Dr. Clarissa Pinkola-Estes (a jungian & storyteller/poet) has some really good ideas about practicing good "creativity hygiene." I have it on cassette tape. If you can still play those things I can send it to you. Amazon has it on CD as well if you want to give Elsa the click.

When Pluto opposed my Moon it must have done something to my Virgo stellium too because I had really bad anxiety/worry plus OCD & depression that actually got kind of psychotic for a bit. I wish I had known astrology at that time haha. 

I was on meds for a while but what really snapped me out of it was realizing that, ultimately, it was just my brain creating this and I should change my thought patterns (which can be pretty dark).

I fight Virgo with Virgo with a list of rules about worrying (ha) so I don't get sucked into worry if I am stressed out or not paying attention to my habits:

Set up a designated daily worry time. No worry is allowed outside the designated worry zone. If I catch myself, I just tell myself it isn't time yet and think about something else. Even if I have to tell myself a billion times a day.

The realization that when I am worrying, it is robbing me of the opportunity to be DOING. (And maybe it is robbing me of an opportunity to be creating, which you kind of do in your head a lot beforehand while it is all fermenting, you know? How can you do that if your brain is busy worrying?). And that realization kind of pissed me off enough to want to stop it. Worry has no real action whatsoever.

If something is bothering me enough to continue to be popping up as worries ding ding that is a signal for me to do something about it. Even if that means doing nothing (like deciding it is out of my control and let it go duh).

During that Pluto/Moon meds helped me the most for anxiety, frankly.

I'm grateful for this thread.  Y'all are dropping a lot of good stuff. I'm going to be busy exploring!

I agree with you, Crackers! Thanks all for contributing! Wow, I'm learning sooo much here with regards to dealing with anxiety! Hopefully I will learn the first steps to dealing with this and hopefully I can learn to relax and be "creative" once again!

Jilly:

I love the "fight Virgo with Virgo."  So basically you're saying - give yourself permission to worry but not beyond that certain time frame, right?

Monica: 

That's a very good program you have on! There is something similar here but it's way beyond my price range at the moment. I decided to try out a Stress Management class instead so we'll see how that goes next weekend.  This type of yoga workshop I enrolled in is not one of those trendy yoga studios (which are abundant here) as they are most concerned about spirituality. Glad to see that yoga has helped you!

Oh and since you are the anxious type - were you able to learn to meditate? I Have the hardest time ever doing that!

Hi Lunalie :)

You know when I was taking those yoga classes, it was covered by my insurance so I didn't have to pay anything.  Even though they were at a yoga studio because they were focused on treating anxiety/depression/ocd it was considered cognitive behavorial therapy by the insurance company.  If not, I would not have been able to afford it either!

If it is something that interests you, you can send me your email address in a message and tomorrow I could scan some of the notes and handouts that I received in the yoga classes.

With meditation, I think that the best tip is that there will be times when your mind will wander away, the key is to acknowledge it and just keep on trying!!

I have had anxiety, panic attacks, some ocd and depression all my life.  Over the years I have learned what the "triggers" are and have objectively observed the way my brain and thought forms develop.  I know weird,lol.  When I am swirling the bowel i will try to self examine what is going on and conciouosly stop the "train" of thought or distract myself.

I have done tons of therapy and work on self my whole life it seems.  One therapist described the clouds floating through the mind but he used birds flying through a room, it does work.  I just try to let the thought fly through without grabbing on and analyzing "everthing",lol.

Working out does help me "get out of my head", as does eating before I am insane,lol.

Astrologically I have Mars in Libra in the 4th opposing Saturn in Aries in the 10th.  I also have my Scorpio nepturne in the 6th squaring my Aquarius moon in the 9th.  I think my 12th house sun is also a player in the scenario.

Lunalie: "I have Saturn in 6th in Virgo squaring Neptune (9th Sagittarius), trining Uranus (8th Scorpio) and Venus (2nd Taurus). "

 You have an abundant natural spring of worry.  You have the grand worrier wearing the worry mask in the worry shack.  This character is being challenged by the movie maker.  It is as though Saturn here is a big time producer who is throwing money, time, energy into a sink hole with some director who doesn't share his vision. 

Don't try to stop worrying.  You are wired for worry.  You love to worry.  You need to worry.  Its the fake stuff you're worrying about that isn't feeling right to you. 

Give yourself a cathartic fake worry overload by watching a bunch of scary/thriller type movies.  This will satiate neptune for a bit.  You'll get a handle on whats worth worrying about, then you can focus and become a more effecient effective worrier.

It took me almost a year of therapy to learn that turning your thinking around thing - but it's spot on.  If you can do it - and I know you can - you'll change your life.

My chart?  Sun/Saturn/Asc in gemini opposite 7th house moon/neptune.  There's that Saturn Neptune thing again .... *grin*

(And for the record, I got some similar advice from Elsa at the time I was struggling with this - so she gets credit for first tip.  Just took me a couple years to really own it.)

Luna- there are other birth control options out there that won't have the same hormonal impact as the pill. I have an IUD, and it's the best thing in the world. The hormones are localized, so the impact on my emotional cycle and anything happening outside of my uterus is negligible, versus a pill or a shot that introduces hormones into the entire system.

And there's no chance of user error (a big one for me!)

 I dont have any planets in Virgo so i cant recognise the anxiety you are talking about!   

But it made me think of something. What if you have Fire signs in Earth houses ? Fire signs are impatient ...so what if they are in the 6th house or 10th ? They might create lot of worrying and anxiety? It make the person want to have instant resaults. Not the same way Virgo wants to have good resaults. 

My cousin is reallly really slow (Too much Capricorn). He moves through life with his own pace!   He come across all the time, to impatient people that trying to make me move quicklly!  They put pressure!  I dont know his time of birth but i guees he have capricorn in a fire house!

mmarianna:

My fire signs are in the 5th, 9th and 12th houses. I don't think any of them are in earth houses at all. It does make a lot of sense though!