mmarianna

I dont know anything about the subject. But I was wondering if we are able to find these tendencies in a chart!  

I would guess that its an anger that have been turned towards oneself .?  (Unhealthy - Unexpressed Mars)

___

Sigmund Freud mentioned that both tendencies(Sadism-Masochism) commonly occured in the same individual

 

genius

Pluto/Mars/8th house......under maybe some Neptune Influence...

 

Anonymous

I vote for Mars/Saturn aspects...and a bit of Neptune, yes, for the illusions/ideas that are needed to construct a vision. 

luci

Never mind! :)

Beth

I honestly have no idea, though I suspect Neptune, Saturn, Mars, Pluto- the usual suspects. I don't even know if Masochism/ Sadism can be clearly defined enough to attribute certain planets/aspects to it. (I mean, one person will only like physical pain, one likes mental and so forth. Also, there's a difference between role-playing and a problem that causes you to stay in an abusive relationship, isn't there?)

Add to that the relationship factor (two charts). 

 

So yeah, confusing.

notatirem

Harsh aspects involving Aries or the 1st house bring out sadistic tendencies.

Harsh aspects involving Capricorn/Saturn bring out masochistic tendencies.

This is not comprehensive, just what I have observed.

luci

Yeah, Beth said what I was trying to say and couldn't find the words for. It's also not all about anger, either, it can be about release of control or a myriad of other things.

Thanks for reading my mind, Beth!

satori

I would concur about the pluto/mars connection.  what notatirem said really sparked some thought for me:  I just realized that the person who has their pluto/mars opposition sitting on my AC/DC, well, I experience them as being acutely sadistic, though that is not what others seem to see.  I guess it's a synastry thing in that case.

moonpluto

Heh. Just take a look at my chart and you'll see!

But seriously folks....

Some years ago I loved reading about the psychology of s/m people. Not from a clinical perspective but from the participants themselves. Found it fascinating all the myriad interests out there.

 

genius

You guys shud know tat it works as a healing for many people too...lot of very successful businessmen, bankers, film actors indulge in these thgs...

 

Bananas

I've read in "chart profiles" of my boyfriend that he has sadistic fantasies which need release, however, this has never manifested, at least not with me. Back when we were "just friends" ten years ago he told me excitedly about some girl (yes, girl... he was in his 20s) who let him tie her up and he thought that was pretty cool.

Sometimes I think maybe I'll suggest something like that to him where I get to be his sex slave for a half hour, but honestly the sex is so damn good just the regular way that it never seems necessary. And it is DEFINITELY NOT something I crave... bleh.

Thinking about this some more... nope... I don't think I could ever do this. I'm too into having sex be a spiritual transcendence thing. This would seem like the exact opposite of what I'm into.

isthmus

I don't think it's necessarily unhealthy, although I suppose it depends on what definitions you use.

Only sadist's chart I have w/reliable birth data (a prominent figure, has professional experience and is very well respected): Pisces Venus conj Saturn trine Neptune and square Jupiter (chart ruler). Pluto conj Uran in 7th trine Taurus sun conj Mars. Libra moon trine Jupiter. So, Pluto-Mars trine.

Would be nice to see the charts of other professionals or ppl who identify as sadists/masochists. I'm sure there are plenty of ppl who dabble or explore this type of thing, but it's not a core part of their identity and I imagine the astrology is different.

Not sure about Saturn-Mars as I've seen this repress the sexual side in ppl.

Beth

I was reading Liz Greene's Neptune and I saw this:

"Masochistic behavior, whether it is expressed exclusively in the sexual arena or as a general psychological life pattern, belongs to the world of Neptune. At its core lies a familiar archetypal kernal comprised of feelings of shame, a need for expiation through suffering, an indirect expression of aggression, and a potent yearning for redemption. Masochism may be viewed as pathology. It may also be viewed as the personal enactment of a deeper, albeit unconscious need to experience the suffering of the human condition."

She goes on to suggest conflicts between Neptune and Mars may have something to do with this.

 (Also, I'd like to add that I don't think masochistic and sadistic impulses definately come from the same place.)

mmarianna

Thank you for your responsesssss. Too much food for thought

Bananas

Thinking about this some more... yeah, i don't know about the word "sadism." The profiles said he'd like to explore some type of master servant scenario or dominance/submission thing.

Sadism is such a harsh term. Too much, really.

genius

widout being judgemental I guess if a couple is fine wid it ...then its upto them....they can talk about drawing the lines....

 'basic instinct movie' had some display of sadism.....

wat one wants to do behind the close doors of their bedroom is none of ever1s business.. besides some variety/experimenting is nt bad..it may act as a new fire in an extinguishing < >...

isthmus

It sounds half the posts are considering sadism/masochism broadly, as in mean ppl who take pleasure in the pain of others, or ppl who take a lot of abuse in general? I think a lot of ppl would fall into that category and would hesitate to isolate certain aspects or signs in this case - but those who actually get off by inflicting physical pain on others or who are physically aroused by pain (and not just fantasizing about it) are much rarer.

@Bananas, some ppl into bdsm would describe their experiences as spiritually transcendent and ecstatic. I think it makes sense considering how many religious traditions use physical/psychological extremes as a way to access spiritual experiences. It's a way of playing and negotiating with boundaries so perhaps Neptune is implied in this way.

Bananas

Yeah, I don't know. If something doesn't make someone feel loved I would say don't do it, and hogwash to the "spiritual extremes" religious bullshit. Seriously. That's just some religious power play bullshit!

depth

my mars(11H) sextiles saturn(1H) & sem-sextiles uranus/neptune(12H)....i'm a mild mixture of both...if i were a boy i would have been a sadist for sure towards women in bed....but being a gal,i want my man to be aggressive,possessive,jealous...i like the idea of getting atleast 1/2 slaps & probably being beaten up ....but em not of the type 2 quietly endure & always retreat....my venus conj pluto(out of sign & wide orbit of 9 deg).....only when it comes to sex..i like force otherwise i like being gentle.... 

my bf has mars trine saturn,conjunct jupiter,square uranus & neptune,semi-sextile venus & sun...his pluto squares venus(leo)

jo

Maybe afflicted Venus &/or saturn & pluto

also mars i would say

The Marquis de Sade ( whom the word sadism was based on ) had venus conj saturn in cancer ( all conj chiron too ) and square Pluto 

 ( well you know. It would be generalizing to say that everyone w/venus saturn conj is a sadist. That is not what im saying at all. That would be stupid. you could see that his venus is afflicted though.. which is my point. ) 

 

Chiron conj Saturn sounds painful tbh. 

Scorp in a Suit

Huh, I would have pegged sadism as a cardinal thing, and masochism as tending more towards masochism.