What would it take to get men to court women again?  And to value them in the way they have in the past?

Any ideas? Or is this something no one wants anyway?

pictured - Rustic Courtship by William Henry Midwood (1867-1875)

I think it would have to start with parenting.

Amen Alicia!

Women refusing to give in to "non-courting".

It starts with women RESPECTING ourselves and not accepting bad behavior from men.  Not "giving it up" so fast anymore.  Men just assume we will be in the sac with them by the third date.  It might be old fashioned, but most men WANT to persue!!!  They want to win something of value.  And if we don't value ourselves, then guess what?  They won't either and they won't put forth the effort to win and woo us anymore. 

I've posted this link several times on here, but it's worth mentioning again:

www.hookingupsmart.com

If it's the only way they can get sex, they'll change. Not a minute before, though!

Yeah, that would take a collective movement on the part of the women...doubt it'll happen anytime soon...

Ha! Alicia--At first read I thought the couple as parents and was quite flummoxed!  I get it now...Thanks for the inadvertent chuckle.

To answer the question-off top of my head so as to not overthink upfront...I think there would have to be:

a reinvestment/rediscovery regarding the benefits of partnering with mutually shared goals. ie-why is it better than flying solo?

a belief that the range of women they might court have traits and skills and values that are in fact 'worthy' of a concerted effort to be able to court and follow through on the man's part.

a reasonably held belief that having worked to earn/gain something of value (a committed partner) it could not be easily lost/put aside.

a reasonably held belief that they did not stand to lose vastly more than they gained in the event of a failure of the relationship. (I don't mean just $--access to children, reputation, self-worth, etc).

a belief that women generally *want* and would welcome being courted as in the past.

Mmn. I'm sure there's more, but that's for a decent start...

... I get courted? Maybe I'm not defining it correctly?

Yeah, not giving it up.

As always, CP nails it.  :)

Wow, first of all, some men still court. Even very young ones. My number 2 daughter, the pisces sun cancer moon with the leo rising has consistently had men court her. They do romantic gestures, dates, gifts, the works. Not because she won't give it up!!! It is because they value her. They want to be the special someone in her life. For example, she is living with her current boyfriend. They have been together for two years. On their first year anniversary, he took her on a romantic trip. They are already planning another romantic anniversary trip.

If you are suggesting woman not put out unless a guy takes them out for dinner and buys them roses, that is not courtship. That is prostitution. If a guy is only taking you out to dinner to get laid, he is not courting you. I know that the 50s are very popular again, but let's not go back to their insane sexual mores for women.

Some young men are totally clueless. But really if a man is not courting you, trying to impress you, he has no interest in a long term relationship. 

I'd agree with what Alicia, Egiy & VLR all three said.  I don't think that just one thing is gonna fix this problem.  Yes, I said problem, 'cause I do see it as a problem.
Angie

I agree it's multifaceted but I do believe one of the things that many women have to get over is a lack of self esteem.  Sure there are lots of driven women who will just barrel through any courtship but I think many women don't allow themselves to be courted because they don't feel they are worthy of being treated well.

What egiyablu said. I just don't accept it. Give positive reinforcement for "courting" and completely ignore the guys that aren't "courting" you. I need a guy that's open about his interest for me and is willing and able to demonstrate it.

They never stopped in my life, so I'd say it would take women who want this to have a deep internal expectation, reasonable match to their needs, and desire to be courted. And they need to make sure they will accept nothing less.

Now, what happens after the courting or whether people are genuinely this way or just trying to get in your pants is an age-old issue, but the process is there for those who are looking for it.

This would be for more traditional women and others who enjoy this dynamic. I don't think it's fair to ask all men to do this as there are men who do not want this dynamic, and women who don't want this either. People show their own preferences, so they self-select by their behavior in courting.

No guy is going to attempt to hit on me rudely and expect me to respond to him. But I do know women who enjoy their free and open relationships with no courtship. To each her own.

Stop "working" and start doing laundry, baking bread, raising children and keeping house? I think men might be willing to put forth some effort to score one of those, what do you call em, wives.

I get courted. 

Wanted to add, less hollywood movies and tv shows that glorify confused relationships and dating that is dangerous to mental and emotional health. I see many young women and men with very loose boundaries and risky emotional rationalizations who are deeply unhappy because they try to fit into some trendy version of a relationship, or not having one, rather than getting to know themselves and each other.

Two things - Stop giving out so quickly. And above all stop CHASING men!

I can't believe how young women carry on these days - pursuing men like they are prey. It's crazy and gets them nowhere fast - laid maybe, and exploited in other ways, but really...  Men do NOT respect women who usurp their role in this way, they see as as shanky, or threatening. or both

I never or very very rarely ring a man unless I'm in a long established and monogomous couple. If it's a fairly recent or still fairly casual relationship, I just don't do anything to push things, I always leave it up to the man. And I do (or rather did) get courted, regularly, and not just by older men

Another thing, don't insist on paying for things on a date. It undermines a man's sense of control in the relationship, and his role as potential 'provider': paying for most men is part of the courting ritual

You can probalby tell I was already a grown woman by the time feminism kicked in. I subscribed to it in the world of work, where it was needed, but imo it just doesn't work in the area of sexual / romantic relationships

I think if you value yourself you will be courted or at least that is what has happened in my life. If one does not expect to be treated right then they won't, certainly. It takes a woman or man who wants to be courted and who insists ofhis have it happen for them but yes, I believe a person can still be courted.

I asked for it. Seemed to work :)

Courtship is one of the more noble things to which a man can aspire.

I agree with Annalisa. Having respect for yourself WILL come across as requiring respect from a potential partner, hence the courting process.

Courtship seems like a lost art.

I very much enjoy courting a lady who I am strongly drawn to. 

Perhaps it's my Venus/Moon conjunction in Libra, but I believe it is almost a requirement for a lasting, loving relationship!

Not to mention, it is fun!

Thanks for the link again Jennifer - I missed it before and heartily concur.. took notes even. :P

"I asked for it. Seemed to work :)" I think this may be the best overall approach.

I think it's changed forever and reverting to a modern form due the desire for the more traditional courtship - for both parties. Including Nota's statement "Stop "working" and start doing laundry, baking bread, raising children and keeping house? I think men might be willing to put forth some effort to score one of those, what do you call em, wives."

I'm trying to slow down the race and am now dealing with other anxieties and issues.. namely fear I'll be unemployed etc. However doing the work chase never led to me feeling appreciated so.. there ya go. Still I love the thrill of an awesome position. :)

No one has time for that bullshit anymore. I like you, you like me...lets get it on, so we can get back to work. It's not about respect(maybe for some it is). There are plenty of women that know their value goes beyond their vagina, whether they give it up quickly or not. If a guy really wants a relationship with you, having sex with him won't change that. 

Women enjoy sex as much as men, and now it's more acceptable for them to pursue just that. I'm seeing a woman who works fulltime, while rehearsing for multiple shows, and working on her second master's degree. She doesn't have time for the nonsense. I still have a great deal of respect for her and her accomplishments, even though we slept together on our first date. 

If all you got going for you is your vagina, then by all means, hold out. I actually lose respect for women that try to trap a man into a relationship by holding out sex, and though I've stopped doing this for the most part, I used to date them for as long as it took(not more than a couple months though), then would cut them off, hard.

"I actually lose respect for women that try to trap a man into a relationship by holding out sex"

thank you :) I don't think women should ever just "give it up", but nor should they feel like they have to hold out on a guy for some prescribed period of time, or worse, hold out until they get...something.

I don't think courting is dead by any stretch, but there is no surefire answer to making it more mainstream again.  I think a lot of people simply feel too entitled (men often feel entitled to not have to do it, women often feel entitled to much more special treatment than is reasonable)...this "I gotta get MINE" attitude has become more common and I think it's got a lot to do with falling courtship rituals.

I think many women don't allow themselves to be courted because they don't feel they are worthy of being treated well.

I agree with mahchi.

Whether they think they are or they aren't, they're right. 

Why is courtship synonymous with being treated well?

Whether you have sex on the first date or the 10th date, IS immaterial if you don't treat yourself like a doormat.  Mutual respect is required.  Women who get wrapped up in a man, and do all the chasing are kinda what I was talking about, (and I speak from experience).  I am in no way advocating holding out as tricking a guy or anything...if he likes you, he will stick around until you are ready.  And no, dating is not like prostitution, I think that was an extreme example as mentioned somewhere above....

I honestly don't see what is so wrong with men putting forth a little effort to win the heart of a girl he fancies. 

How is courtship at all or especially only about a vagina? 

I am honestly asking because as often as not, I fnd that how I view/define certain terms is not at all how it's viewed/defined by the mainstream.

Case in point, I'd not thought of courtship as vagina-centric. Even "back in the olden days when a woman's worth was measured in camels" courtship...

VLR, there's nothing wrong with a guy putting in effort, but many times that turns in to backflips through flaming hoops. As far as women getting wrapped up in a man, it happens to both genders. I've got a question..why is it so wrong for a woman to put in some effort, and go after what she wants??

In the days of "courtship", a woman that pursued a man would be seen as a harlot..do you agree with that assessment?

A lot of times dating is like prostitution and it's really not that extreme of an example. I've gotten laid exactly once in the early stages of dating after taking a girl to an art museum. The brazilian steakhouse that's $100 a person, drops the panties every time..go figure. 

CP Griffin, I just want to applaud you for proving my point that courtship in the original sense is an archaic practice. The people that started it, measured a woman's worth in camels...should we start doing that again too???

Why is courtship synonymous with being treated well?

It shows an investment of time, which is a valuable and respectable thing. It shows that you have an idea how to make it in the long run.

I suspect that most successful relationships do involve some courting! Men can do it, they just don't unless they really really want someone. So like everyone else already said, believe you're worth it and eventually it will happen!  Er, probably not exactly like the old days but there are lots of reasons to be happy it's not the old days.

I mean, if you think you want to be with someone for a while, can't you take your time? Courtship shows that yes you can.

I had a thought, and then after reading all the responses, it gets so complex, that I don't remember my first thought anymore. Does that happen to anyone?

Well, I thought that "courtship" was just simply getting a woman to like/love the man. You know, doing chivalrous things, winning her heart, not her you-know-what.

Yes, I agree, I think it starts with parenting and teaching girls how to respect themselves. And boys need good dads who will be good role models as to how to treat women too. When divorces happen and the dad is absent, the son often loses that strong male role-model who will show him how to grow up as a "good" man, chivalrous, respectful, etc.

lol @TAH, all the time