Okay, I know you folks are as sick of listening to me bitch as I am about doing it, but I just can't help it.  I was writing on another thread and everything just came to a head and I need to get it out and get some outside perspectives, 'cause God knows I can't keep mine stable.

I'm stuck.  I'm fucking stuck and I hate it, I can't get the damned circling thoughts about my seperation out of my head and it's killing me.  Why the hell can't I just move on?  Depending on what date you choose, it's either been almost a year or just over four months, and that's more than enough time for this bullshit.  Even though I appear to be alright, I'm just going through the motions.  Inside, it's still the same damned vicious thoughts over and over and over again and I'm tired of it.  I'm especially tired of thinking about a man who lead me around for eight goddamned years and let me go like I was some mangy ass cur when I was no longer convenient for him.  I'm tired of being slashed inside over and over when it's obvious that it's no big deal to him.  I'm tired of being the broken, immature one for still feeling pain while he's the healthy, self-possessed son of a bitch out running around being happy and has everyone's respect and admiration.

I'm just tired of giving a damn.  I used to have better defenses than this, that I dismantled to make the shitty fucking relationship that's still tearing me up "stronger."  *rolls eyes*

I'm already in therapy, although for some reason our appointments keep getting rescheduled, so I haven't seen her in about six weeks.  I know I need to go see her, so the therapy angle is quite covered, whenever I can actually make it to an appointment.  When I get some free cash, I'm definitely getting a consult with E, as well.  I just want to know what you guys think; I need a sliver of an out that I can grasp and hang on to for dear life.  Please.

I don't know what would be best to show, astrologically speaking, so below's a link to my natal and transits.  If there's anything else, composite, synastry, whatever, that you think would be more beneficial, just let me know and I'll try to get it up.

Thanks, y'all.

I'll post a permanent screen shot when I get home (hopefully).  For now, let's hope this temp one works.

http://www.astro.com/cgi/showgif.cgi?lang=e&gif=astro_24at_01_sadiablo_2009829.20842.2039.gif&res=100&va=&cid=v81fileQahLog-u1251524842

Hey SaDiablo,

I'm not really versed at reading charts. But I am very experienced at crappy relationships. The one thing that does help--well a couple of things:

1. To remind myself that EVENTUALLY I am relieved to rid of the critter! I ALWAYS think "WTF was I thinking???" Oftentimes the one who gets dumped is the one who does the best at moving on. The one who dumps is the one that goes back and thinks later, "Uh, maybe I did have something good there...?" So he might have second thoughts later...NOT that you will NOR should want him back!

 2. Another good thing to keep remnding yourself is WHY would I want to be with someone who does not adore me??

3. There is one thing I have found to be true...just when you have given up on love, it falls right into your lap again! Really.

You don't by any chance have Saturn in your 7th house like I do, do you?

Btw, my 95 year-old Italian grandpa gave me some very good advice with men. He said, "Play it cool. Play it cool." Don't call. Don't nag. Don't scream. Don't accuse. Once I started taking that approach, things started to improve a lot. Not sure what kind of communication you have with him or if this is salvageable. It sounds like you'd still like to to try? Maybe with the transitiont o Libra--things are supposed to become more stable for relationships. Maybe there is hope? Though, you can defiitely be hopeful for a new relationship if it doesn't work out with this guy. Chin up!

SaDiablo I can relate to every single word you have written..as i am going through the same..

SaDiablo--the link says your chart expired, but if I remember correctly (prob not)...there's some Scorpio and Leo in your chart, no?  Sorry if I'm totally off.

I just keep thinking about that anger I hear in your words and wonder if you could use that to your advantage.  I know it's easier said than done, or else you would've done it already, but I think that's prob the best tool you have right now?  Get back at that motherfucker....by being the best YOU that YOU can be!  Take all that anger and say "Fuck you!  It's your loss buddy!"  What are some things you've always wanted to do and never got around to?  Get fearless.

(((((SaDiablo)))))

I mean, your screen name is SaDIABLO!

dont know what you mean about therapy appointments keep getting rescheduled. Is that cuz of them or you? If it's them, then maybe you need to find someone new. Makes no sense, unless they are on vacation why your appts keep moving.

Also about therapy: therapy should be helping. It should be. But it should be consistent and you should be dealing with, bringing up the issues. Some therapists are happy to be entertained by charming women and you need to stay away from those. Ah, what is it that i'm trying to say? Trying to say make sure this therapist is good one for you, that you trust them enough to talk about your stuff and they'll call you on it when you are avoiding talking about what needs to be talked about-- And it's not helping if you are in crisis and haven't been there in 6 weeks and the answer is because of appointment rescheduling, you know? Someone has to take some responsibility here. If they won't, then you need to find a better clinic, in my humble opinion.

As for the issue at hand, well... you are being really hard on yourself and there's no need for that. It doesn't help. In fact, it makes everything worse. So try to notice when you do that and try to stop it, or at least NOTICE IT. Don't add fuel to fire, as they say. Because how you think about these matters will obviously color your thinking and your feeling. Sometimes we are stuck. Sometimes we stay stuck for a while. Sometimes there is no escape valve, no easy route. Sometimes we have to sit with whatever cruddy feeling we are feeling. Don't run away from it. Try to sit with it. And if you are sitting with it, and sick of that, then take a break, but come back to yourself. You are all you have. I mean, you have your supports i hope, but ultimately... i realize that ultimately, we can mother/counsel ourselves better than anyone, yet we still need people absolutely, we need people to show us the way forward....

For an 8 year relationship, one year in pain doesn't seem that much to me honestly. It will take as long as it takes and like i wrote above, you can and should take breaks from it but grief comes in waves and it should change month to month but probably still be painful for a while. Everyone is different. I say it's better to process and it sounds like that is what you are doing... All this shows how normal you are.

I dont' know the details of your life, i don't know how old you are, but i think the key is stop pushing yourself so hard, give yourself some space to feel your feelings because it's okay however you feel. And at some point, some processing will be necessary to figure out what happened maybe -- you don't have to make sense of it all even though that's always the longing: to make sense of what seems nonsensical.

which chart were you in the colloseum? I am wondering about neptune in your life 

(Sadiablo)

In terms of advice:

1. Time. Hang in there. You will get through this

2. Transform. Work with your emotions. You sound pretty angry, so maybe working it out Mars-style (exercise) will help. Or write an angry story. Go dance. Therapy will help.

3. Be patient and kind (to yourself). Stop beating yourself up for not being over it yet. You will be. Be patient.

4.Pamper yourself. You deserve the best.

I had a VERY bad experience. After 6 year relationship I broke it off he guy stalked me, broke into my house, attempted suicide, all sorts of drama, but I can tell you I am OVER it. But not in 4 - 12 months!

(((Sadiablo)))

The chart is expired so I can't help with any astrology, but I do have advice.

My husband of 22 years left me with no warning. I went through a divorce while working in the same company as him - which meant I couldn't vent or it would get back to him - and he was good friends with the manager. I was very angry. I channelled that anger into self improvement. I lost weight. I went back to college and finished my degree. I fixed up and redecorated my house. In other words - I kept busy. I didn't give myself time to dwell on what I'd lost because I was too busy making a new life. I think that's what saved me. My ex was an alcoholic and they really know how to destroy your self-esteem. I was rebuilding myself all over from scratch.

My advice is to keep busy. Do things that will make your life better. Like Shell said - be the best you can be. This is HIS loss. Get mad!!! Then channel the anger into growth. Instead of concentrating on what you've lost, look at the freedom you have gained. Take classes; go out with friends; journal; whatever is your style - but don't let yourself dwell.

Please be kind to yourself. You say he "lead you around for 8 years". Now you are free to be yourself again. Wallow in that freedom. Learn to love yourself. Become a whole woman who doesn't "need" a man to complete her. When the time is right, you will find a whole man who will love you for just who you are. But he will be the frosting - not the cake.

Oh, SaDiablo, I feel for you.  Been there and done that, too, especially the thoughts running around and around in my head, 'squirrel-caging,' I think it's called.

What I finally ended up doing was (a) letting myself feel what I was feeling, then (b) doing a little meditation in my head where, every time an issue or a scene from the past came up, I saw myself in it, what I said and did, felt the anger/abandonment or shame or whatever it was, and (c) realized how I had abandoned that part of myself, left myself twisting in the wind, so to speak, walked away from that part of me and left her hanging there, and that's why I kept re-experiencing it. I would then (d) go after that person, that person that I was, welcome her back, literally and physically open my arms and tell her to come home, asked her to forgive me for leaving her there, that all was forgiven and understood now, and I'd end up hugging her back into myself.  This was me accepting and re-integrating my Shadow side, the part that when, blamed and abandoned by my companion, I had also abandoned. 

When I had forgiven myself I could forgive him and then I was so FREE you wouldn't believe it, and the squirrel-caging gradually stopped.  For me, acceptance and forgiveness, for self and others, was the key.  Now my former husband of 23 years is just someone I used to know and I have a lot more understanding of myself since I stopped focusing on HIM and I feel stronger, released, free, self-confident and glad I no longer live with the constant critic and abuser that he was.

Also, I got sick of myself, which is what I think I hear you saying.  It really galled me that he worked so hard to be the innocent party to all our family and friends, even calling me down and blaming me to our children.  I obsessed over this and amputated a lot of friends who believed what he said.  So much loss!  I obsessed over it.  Then I read a book called "Crazy Time," by Abigail (sorry the last name is lost to me), which is about what people/couples go through when they divorce, and it really helped me.

And like moonpluto said, I forced myself to NOTICE when I was squirrel-caging, and began to require that I think about other stuff, and to focus on what I HAD as opposed to what I no longer had.  When I could do that for a while, I began to see that I had a lot to feel grateful for, and gradually I felt bolstered and protected and provided for, and the other stuff began to subside and heal.  I basically discovered what I was made of, and I liked it.

Also, I remember the turning point for me was when, in the midst of a crying jag I asked an older person I loved and respected very much how they did it when they went through a divorce (their spouse left them for someone else and basically threw them away, just like mind had) and they instantly said, "Accept it."  Just that, and I saw the truth in what they were saying, that I hadn't yet accepted that all of these bad things had even happened to me.  So, I thought about it for a while, and when I was ready, some days later, I summoned my courage and said out loud, "I accept it."  Over and over, until I really felt it, and from then on things started to heal themselves it seemed, and I got un-stuck.

So, don't know if this would be helpful, don't know if you think any of it applies to you and your situation, but I heard the humanity and the loss and pain in your request for help and couldn't not respond.   And like others have said, be gentle with yourself, just love and accept yourself.  Sorry I don't have the skills to figure the astrology in, this is just what I learned when I went through that part of my life and I hope it helps.  Oh and here's some ((((sa diablo)))), please know it won't always be like this, it does get better and that's a promise.

((SaD))

I like Peppermint's advice about acceptance. You and I are both going through a similar thing in breaking up, but I don't have the squirrel caging to the same extent and I think it's because right from day one I decided that this was my life and I was going to roll with it. I say this not to rub it in (I think you know me enough to know by now I wouldn't do that anyway) but to highlight the critical need to accept. Something I did was look in the mirror and repeat "He left me." It helped. It sucked, but it helped reality sink in.

I strongly suspect that with Pluto going direct you will feel a shift, perhaps it will be a few months from now or a year or longer, but a shift you will feel because a shift is going to be happening, for all of us.

When does Pluto begin it's square to your Libra Venus? Remember with the square there are bouts of tension-release and try to acknowledge the moments, no matter how brief, of release.

You are wonderful. Feel free to talk anytime--we're here for you!

It's going to be difficult to detach if:

1.) Not in tune with your inner "ICEMAN"

2.) Been in a co-dependent relationship for some time. 

There's a lot written and discussed about the "ICEMAN" achytype.  It is sort of Aquarian and Plutonian, IMO, in relation to astrology.  A very Aquarian or Plutonian indivisual easily pulls out thier ICEMAN in seperation situations.  It tells the inner siren with a even clear coldly indifferent voice "Stop that this minute.  Be rational.  You are crazy for reacting/acting this way.  It's for the better... It's over.  Quit being emotional and get on with it."  Highly inseneitive, right?  How dare she!  Doesn't the ICEMAN know of your pain? 

Of course.  This is the part of you that is at the ready to destroy an old system and create a new "improved" one, and at the drop of a dime, honey.  If it is perticularly Plutonian it may do this in a way that desn't make sense to anyone including you or seems unfair and vicious.  Conversly the more Aquarian goes about in a humane broke-some-eggs-but-here-is-the-cake way, that leaves on feeling a bit better or alteast understanding what the H happened.

It's pretty much when that inner or outer voice comes at you with it's hurt and anger "How could you do this to me?"  It can be harrowing like a shrieking Medusa and paralyzes your efforts to move on.  Astrologically I've read this referenced in many things none of which I perticlarly agree with, Saturn and Lilith are at the fore but once again I don't concur.  It's important to realize that this voice is YOURS and is talking to you, about you.  You need to resolve this internally in most cases.  Come to terms with things that are haunting, unidentifyable, possibly unexplainable, and perhaps hidden. 

Usually the inner ICEMAN is the opponant of that voice and is also a part of you.  The ICEMAN provokes you to detach and move on while the other entices you to hang on and as you put it, whine.  In a seperation, well in most cases, there is an ICEMAN.  In this case it is your former love who has utilized it or appeared to detach.  You are feeling the need to hang on.  In this way you are playing out the relationship by filling in his blanks, even though this is not your task any longer.  He should be feeling something, you think you can provide an example, and there by perhaps subconsciously, you are.  Maybe this is a pattern?

You may be resisting your ICEMAN and thereby projecting it on to the other.  He is detached and moved on, so you say.  Your perception of his detachment is really a clue as to what you want and actually have but are not using.

o.k. to be fair almost any kind of relationship bears some co-dependency.  If the co-dependency was dominant, it is not going to want to give up it's power over you.  You have to kick it out. 

I at times, most often really, have the opposite problem.  When I try to attach to someone, my ICEMAN comes in and orders "Stop that.  Don't be so emotional." 

Best wishes, hope some of this made some sence... in some way.  Sorry for any spelling issues :) 

Also I just thought of your Mars, which helps with "throughing off" the blues.  Because mars gets you up and out and active.  It's a good channel for relasing negitivity.  Somewhere you've go Pluto, Mars, and some Aquarian energy looking to be used and available to help you out.  Also Saturn when it comes to coming to terms with suffering and seeing where it can be useful.

Gah!  Couldn't edit linkage, will re-write.

Take two.

As I was saying, I avoided this topic like the plague the other day because I was at work, but now I'm back to read through everything and hopefully not get all emotional.  *laughs*  And, maybe, to post my chart and/or a link to same.  Let's all hope it works this time!

Chart, maybe? *crosses fingers*:

Wop-freakin'-hop, it worked!!!  *happy dance*  Okay, responses in order of leavitude.  Or whatever.

Vespa, I don't have Saturn in 7th, although it does make some sort of minor aspect to Venus (semi-square, I think, whatever that is).  I do, however, have a Cap dsc, which is similar.  Hrm...  Astrology is soo messy sometimes!  Always new things to learn and dig into!  Must be why I like it.  *laughs*  And you're right, everything always seems to fall into your lap when you least expect it, and love is no exception.  Thanks.

(((surd)))  If I had words, I'd use 'em.  But I don't.  Hang in there, hon.

Shell, no, you're not off.  Scorp and Leo and a shit-ton of Pluto and a fixed/cardinal em-pha-sis.  (Just because that's how it sounded in my head and I wanted everyone to read it that way. *laughs*)  And, yeah, I'm angry.  I'm super pissed because I wasted eight years with this man and they didn't mean shit to him, which is why there's no "getting back at him."  He wouldn't know and wouldn't care if he did.  I'm a complete nonentity to this guy.  And that only makes me more pissed.  Dig?  Besides, I'm tired of hauling around this energy and using it to fuel myself is still using it.  I want to do this shit for myself, not as revenge, but just because I want to.  If I'm not a factor to him, he shouldn't be a factor to me and the fact that he his is just...  argh!  Complete frustration.  Hence the thread.  *shrugs*

Okay, I'm cutting this off so it doesn't get too long.  Back with more in a minute.

mp, the therapy rescheduling is a combo problem.  I'll make a few appointments, show up for a while, then make one, have to change, make one, the therapist has to change, then I forget to reschedule and so on.  It's been... interesting.  But you do have a point, consistancy is key.  So I called a friend of mine, a former boss, and asked if she wouldn't mind seeing me instead.  Could be weird, could be good.  Who knows?  At least I know that, barring major events, she's always there and always on time.  *laughs*  And you're right, I am hard on myself.  I always have been, I've got Sun-Saturn!  But at least I'm not blaming myself for everything anymore, like I was doing at first, and my self-esteem is slowly ratcheting back upward.  I suppose I'm just frustrated because I remember what I was like when I was single before and I was a force of nature!  *lol*  I want that back, and it's taking too long, and I'm impatient.  Now, now, NOW, says Leo, but the universe is saying NO.  It makes me want to grind my teeth, honestly.  But as exasperated as I am, I suppose I'll just keep working at it, putting one foot ahead of the other, and get there when I get there.  Right?  Right.

ambidee, thanks.  I know this will all take time, I'm just impatient.  I want what I want and I want it now.  Not in fifteen minutes, years, or months, but n-o-w NOW.  I've made up my mind, dammit, and everything else should fall in line.   *laughs*  Too bad it doesn't work that way, huh?    Ah, well...

kiriecat, thank you.  I can absolutely relate to what you said about having to build yourself back up from scratch, and your compassion just oozed right through.  So thanks for being you and thanks for caring.  (((kirie)))

If I recall correctly Elsa said that having Capricorn on your 7th is akin to having Saturn in your 7th.

Here's a blog entry of hers ... Saturn in the 7th House

I have Venus sextile Saturn and for me I have to admit that it's beneficial; I have long, steady relationships. But I'm jealous of your chart ... so few hard aspects! Maybe that's what's keeping you from progress.

With your Mars sextile Jupiter in your 1st house, I think you have the energy in you to improve and expand yourself, especially with Jupiter trine your Pisces MC.

peppermint, I love that meditation idea!  I am so going to use that before bed, I have a feeling it will help a lot.  A lot.  And, yeah, I know I should forgive him, but I'm not going to.  He doesn't deserve my forgiveness after what he did, screw the damage to my psyche.  I had, actually, forgiven him for some things, but nah.  Forget that noise.  *laughs*  And, yes, he's playing the innocent and I've lost all of our friends because of it and that's even more galling.  I mean, not only did he get to keep all of "our" friends (which I introduced him to), but he's out there meeting and greeting and making new friends and getting tons of dates and I'm not.  It's just unbelieveably unfair (says Libra)!  It's like no one but me can see that, no, he's not mentally healthy and no, he's not the only wronged party, and no, he's not normal for just fucking forgetting about everything we shared.  The bastard.  *rueful laugh*  So when I hear about him spilling things that I had shared with him in confidence to people I had considered my friends, causing strife and laughing about it, I just want to smack the shit out of him.  Okay, all honesty, I want to break his nose, make him bleed, and set our apartment on fire.  But that seems a bit extreme.  *coughs daintily and looks at halo*  And when I get a moment, I am sooo getting that book, it sounds like a winner.  Thanks.  (((peppermint)))

kash, oh, yes, I know you well enough to know you wouldn't rub anything in, let alone things of a personal, emotional nature.  (((kash)))  But, yanno, I do accept that he left.  It's just that the first(?) time I was abandoned, it took me three years to get over it, and it was nowhere near as personal a rejection and not nearly as traumatic.  And the walls that I had built after that did me well, lasted me through the next rounds of abandonment.  But I don't have those walls anymore; I was taking down the last couple of stones when this break was sprung on me and, I don't know...  It's been hard, very hard, to remember how to build them back up and I'm not even sure if I want to.  Because I also remember how well those walls keep people out and how lonely that was and I don't know if I want to ever go back there.  *sighs*  As for Pluto, depending on orbs, it's already squaring my M-V-Pl behemoth.  Let's hope Pluto going direct will release this wellspring...  Like you, I have a feeling it will.  Thanks, babe.

Eleven, "Somewhere you've got Pluto, Mars, and some Aquarian energy looking to be used and available to help you out."  *looks up at chart*  Yeah, I do.  *laughs*  That's my problem, it's been silent for too long.  I've been working so hard at shutting up my Iceman that it's become a habit, and it's a habit that's doing me no damned good anymore.  And, yeah, my perception of Shithead's detachment may be projection, but if so he's doing a damned fine job of fulfilling it.  But, yes, you made sense and I appreciate it.  I love the Iceman image, because when I do tap it, that's what it feels like.  Coldly detached and entirely rational, able to do anything without emotion.  And, man, do I need that!  Srsly.  Thanks.

Back with personal response in a sec.

I don't know if this would help you. Sometimes when talking about "it" only serves to make me feel worse, I write it down on paper then burn it. Because as a Gemini I can get something in my head that I will just totally over think. It's like something playing in a loop....gah! When I write it down and burn it, it's like a purge.

Good luck! ((SaDiablo))

Piya, yeah, she did say that.  To think of your empty houses as having the cusp ruler there.  I haven't been able to assimilate it yet, though.  I'm just a baby duck!    I feel rather neutral about my chart.  Yeah, there's not a lot of "hard" aspects, but everything is compact and hits everything else (mostly) so it's hard to seperate what feels like what and what's active now.  There's too many variables!  *smiles*  And with so few hard aspects, it's very easy to float along unconnected and unconcerned, which leads to people thinking I have no emotions or hardships.  I mean, c'mon, Pisces midheaven... people see what they want to see with me.  Thanks for the Mars/Jupiter insight!  I've actually been thinking for some time, since my Mars hits literally everything in my chart, why do I have such a hard time tapping into it?  And why, with Jupiter rising, am I so easily depressed and have such a hard time boucing back?  But then, says Libra, that could all be my dour Sun-Saturn talking.  *laughs and shrugs*  Who knows?

Oh, absolutely, Tam!  I'm big into writing and burning, too.  And I also journal and write big, long letters I will never send.  Just putting it out on paper helps, and talking about it helps sometimes.  Most of the time, actually.  This time around it just seems like it's not helping as much as it used to, although after reading everyone's comments and responding, I'm beginning to see that's just my natural impatience taking over.  I'm ready to be done and over with it all and I'm just pissy because I'm not.  *laughs*  The Monty Python chorus in my head is shouting, "Get ON with it!"  Yanno? 

Oops, this is why I'm a beginner. Your Mars is trine your Moon, not Jupiter. Sorrrrryyyy!

Perhaps, considering your Aquarius moon square Uranus, you should change your home situation? Maybe you just need a new location from which to start. I don't know. 8 years is pretty major.

Okay, so here's my current take on things.

A lot of you commented on how angry I seem and I agree.  I AM angry.  I've reached that stage of grief and have been able to sustain it finally and, ya know what?  I've got a right to be.  So I'm going to be angry.  Pfft!  Who cares if my five stages are out of order?  *laughs*

The thing about this that's keeping it in my head, I think, is the unjustness of it all.  I mean, look at that stellium in Libra!  I'm just horribly offended that the guiltier party is getting no comeuppance, whilst the more wronged party is having the shit heaped on them, a view that is only confirmed when I actually look at his horoscopes...  all roses for him, all fertilizer for me.  And I'm pissed that he gets to be the picture of mental health and how to deal, while I get bitched at for mourning, when what I hear when I actually splay the gory details out is how fucked up he is.  And I'm unbelieveably hurt and offended that he gets admiration and support from my former friends for spilling things told in the confidence of marriage, while I get shunned and abandoned over what he tells and I'm still over here with my mouth shut because it's none of their fucking business and it was told to me in confidence.  And even if I did spill what I knew, I'd just be seen as petty and manipulative, though he's a hero for saying the same shit.  (And, no, this is not projection.  This is fact.)

So, basically, it's been betrayal on top of betrayal on top of abandonment on top of...  I don't know.  Complete and utter indifference, I suppose.  And I'm tired of not being recognized for what I did.  I'm tired of being mature and keeping my mouth shut and turning the other cheek and being told that I'm the dickhead for it.

But, fuck it, I'm better off without them all anyway.  Right?

Riiiiiight.

PS -- Does anyone have a clue about the repeated abandonments and betrayals?  I mean, this is a life-long phenomenon.  I was neglected by my parents, completely lost every friend I had in school at 7, betrayed by my BF at 16 (cut her out pretty quick after that), cheated on twice at 18, now this whole mess at 30.  What's the deal?

Woah, I just realized... that's a 12 year pattern, give or take.  Mayhaps Pluto, y'all?

Piya, no biggie.  I'm a beginner, too, or I woulda caught that.    I've actually been thinking of uprooting to the opposite coast.  I'm going to need to move west anyway for grad school in a few years, so why not start early?  *lol*  But, right now, I'm staying with my mom, slowly rebuying the necessary home accoutrements I left with the ex, and saving up for a deposit here.  I figure that while I could up and move, there's not really anything holding me here, I'll probably stay until after I finish my bachelor's.  It might not be smart, but it's definitely easier.    Interestingly, the cards tell me to move, too.  I'm hoping they just mean "Get the fuck out of your MOM'S."  *snickers*

Okay, last post of the day, I promise!

I just got a message that someone couldn't view my chart.  Is anyone else having problems?  Just post here and I'll see what I can do.

(((Sadiablo)))

My heart reaches out to you, dear. Reading your posts I really feel your pain.

My best friend/soul mate/husband of 7years and I also separated. I have been on a constant roller coaster ride since 8-10 months, though it had been busting apart before that. 

I know exactly everything you are going through, believe me. And know also that these are very stressful and also exciting times of change for everyone. So much planetary energy is shaking us up to move us into a higher consciousness. We are all in a process of evolution, so try to focus on all these changes, purgings and turmoils as a way of leaving behind what you dont need so you can be your true self. 

Like you I have cancer rising and venus in libra, so the breakup was devastatingly painful and seemingly very unfair and cut me very deeply.  

I found my interest and study of astrology and tarot really helped me to focus on something I enjoy and to move forward. It helps me to see myself more objectively. I also found that I am a very creative person. For instance, I began to paint as a way of dealing with my many strong emotions (scorpio moon/mars 4th house).  I  was very pleased and amazed to see what I had done. I had always felt I had not a creative bone in my body (Virgo). I began to see other facets of myself that I had never known before.  I set up my husband's musical instruments, and even though I have no training, I poured out my feelings with them, shake the morrocas, beat the drums, tickle and pound on the keyboards...chant, dance, whatever. Get the energy out of your thinking mode, cause that will get you stuck for sure. I know. There is no answer to what happened to me. It happened, and now I need to rebuild my life and rediscover myself. Thats it.

I still have major anxieties, pains, and craziness for real.  What I am learning is how to surf these emotional and energy waves.  As one person said "acceptance" makes it a teenytiny bit easier than the last time. So, there is progress even if slow. And after the intensity and amount of time given to the relationship, as much as I would like this turmoil to end NOW. It aint gonna, and I gotta be patient and loving with myself. 

One of the things that has been most difficult for me is the feeling of being alone in my grief.  There is so much good advice and love from others on this thread that I have read that helps me too! I'm glad I found this site today!

You have super great energy. The more you look at what a terrific person you are and all you have to give, and all the future holds for you, the less you will be haunted by your loss...

namaste

((SaDiablo)) 

Get royally pissed off is what i say. Libra can get jacked by being too fair and playing nice all the time. (i have libra sun/venus/pluto and mars together) And depression is definitely a reflection of this. When i went through my horrible breakup a few years ago one thing that i did was to give myself permission to feel everything.. and took the time to go through the feelings instead of wanting to skip over them to get to the good stuff. In this way I would take time to wallow at each step - in anger, in tears, in hope, and move through. I'm not a strongly religious person but I started to use prayer to help lift the burden of each step. I mean you can only cry for so long before getting totally pissed off at the crying.. or yet another idea/insight/memory about  the bastard who doesn't deserve another moment of my time!! Yet I accepted and moved through and sent a quick prayer to help it out. And when I was ready to move on I started dating.. at first only to move on..  I didn't worry if the guy left because I would still mention the ex.. i figured if it was someone for me they would deal and that i would eventually be out of it - to not bury it at any moment in time. And then one day poof it was all done. Took about 2-3 years i think - with one full year being involved with and loving a new man. 

The abandonment/betrayal with family is your moon square uranus i think.  You step both lightly and then deep. I understood better the aquarius energy having dated someone with jupiter and venus in aquarius. You can detatch and be friends with people and so can your family. It's like a split in the mind I think. All fixed signs are about security. Scorpio it's emotional - the desire for someone to always be able to pick you back up again. Yet you can do it for yourself. You know how to work this. How to snap out and back to light, and then dip deep again. And this square energy is your biggest challenge.. the rest of life is blessed with trines etc. so it can be your biggest focus and what could be tying you up now. And the therapist? Being there but not? Repeat of the square as aquarius rules your 8th house. You need something different to fully change and heal.

This is what's going on for you and you are ahead of the curve... You are about to rebel and take full responsibility for your relationships. Have a full sense of atonomy. You can do whatever you want to do. Your mother will always support you by not supporting you - get it? Your emotions/mother/home will disrupt like the flip of a mattress. The more conscious you are of this the easier to flip. Flip, go deep, come out. Move somewhere new. And definitely join a group of scorpio/plutonians who will pull you up, and pull the rudder out (betray)in equal measure.. but done from a place of love. Lots of scorpios are willing to be part of groups at the moment as everyone is feeling the inspiration of aquarius at the moment.

And btw this up and down is your drama and self-expression! (leo 2nd house/scorpio 5th). So live it and do it and only find someone who can love you for it and be there through it. Because otherwise it comes out in other ways that don't feel so good. 

For me I finally found a man who loved me and me him and we didn't stay together. I want kids and it was a deal breaker and he had a capricorn moon so was able to "coldly" let me go. I was fully myself in the relationship (12th house libra) and left fully in tact. Loving him didn't change the fact that i want to move every time uranus makes a connection (aquarius rules my 4th) and then my saturn in cancer cries. My patterns that tend to repeat. Just that I was fully loved while riding it.

Anyway those are my thoughts to try to help you out. Peace.

I looked up solar and lunar eclipses and its impact on both our natal and progressed charts. Was curious. What I found out with mine really had me on goosebumps for days. It does help me be more accepting, being the number one skeptic person I know.

Check the last three years solar and lunar eclipses and note conjunctions/oppositions to your natal, progressed, synastry aspects with significant others and even the composite aspects.

There is a treasure of information and probably the answers that would liberate you from this anguish that you're going through right now.

I was once in the boat that you're currently in. Unfortunately, I had to battle it alone. I withdrew. But used up a little bit of the advices that you can read in here. Meditation, sports therapy, anger management, taking up a new hobby.  I did everything except get into a rebound relationship. And it all worked out just fine for me.

I could say that I'm fine and that I'm back. It took me at least three years to process all the emotions by the way. How's that? 

So sorry you're having a hard time SaDiablo and glad that you have so much support here, so much that's been said just feels so caring and supportive, guys you are great! I just wanted to make a wee observation which is that NO WONDER this is so hard on you, and NO I don't think that it has to be a rotten lousy repeating pattern for you, I think you are in the process of breaking your old pattern, and the fact that you are pouring so much honest feeling out here, sharing, opening yourself out for some help.. well that just resonates to me with what that triple conjunction of Jupiter, Chiron and Neptune have been doing with your own birth chart's full Moon.. NO WONDER you are yelping like mad, you are at the most intensely raw point akin to having an old septic wound cleaned out while you are still conscious..yeouch!!

I could say a ton more but you've had such good warm support here, I thought I'd send a hug instead ((SaDiablo))

Sadiablo, your chart looks a lot like mine. You are a month or so older than I am. :-) Our rising and moon signs are the same as well! I hope you're feeling better.

Hi, SaDiablo.  I've read your responses to our posts, and just want to let you know I hear you, I hear you loud and clear, I can see why you feel the way you feel, and I'm glad you found something helpful in what we've offered.

As re:  the situations w/your mutual friends, esp. the ones you introduced to him, and that they are sticking by him and judging you based on the crap he's spouting to them.  Yep, happened to me, too, and I remember being so angry and hurt, and feeling so betrayed by people that I had been very good and generous to.  I know how that feels.  One of the things in that Crazy Time book had to do with just this thing, and Abigail explained it by saying that when couples split up, they get a very painful 'private' divorce, but they also get a very painful 'public' divorce, where friends (or people you thought were your friends) take sides and take passive-aggressive pot-shots at the one whose side they did NOT take, and how unfair it is that we have to endure that, too, while our whole world is falling apart.  Made sense to me then, and gaining some understanding about it helped me to let it (and them) go.

As to forgiveness, I want to offer, with love and respect, that forgiving him is not for his benefit, but for your peace of mind and for your Self.  You're right, he doesn't deserve it, but you deserve the peace, release and freedom that comes with letting go of the Platter of Pain he handed you and then so blithely walked away.  I hear you - you're hurt and you're pissed and you have every right to be pissed!  I only brought it up because from my perch on this high old hill of Middle Age, I see now that I had to learn the hard way about what happened when I stayed pissed - I poisoned my Self with it - and for me, forgiveness was the only antidote.  *smiles ruefully and points at her Scorp Moon and Asc.*

I have always liked your strength and energy and the wonderful ways in which you contribute to our little family here, SaDiablo.  Your forthright, pithy, sharply insightful and outright funny observations have made me smile many a day.  I like your intelligence and the wry and feisty notes you weave into the music that we make, and I know that's what will get you through this rocky stretch of road.  Here's hoping you have a wonderful day today, with some joy peeking through the clouds.  I also want to thank all the others who've contributed here, your wisdom and lessons learned have turned on some lights for me, too.  Have a great day, everyone!  

Thanks, Jilly, chamirose, Liz, Lynne and persian.  You're right, everyone has been very supportive and helpful.  That and getting it off my chest in the first place has been a very large weight off my shoulders.  ((((everyone))))

chamirose, I'm sorry to hear about your loss, too.  Hang in there, we'll all make it through together.  (((chamirose)))

Liz, I'd never looked at my Moon/Uranus square like that.  Thanks!  I'm really just beginning in astrology and all the information is sometimes overwhelming, especially when you're still cookbookin' it, so I've generally been looking at one aspect or stellium and learning all I can about it for a month or so, then moving on to the next one (and I haven't even touched that Pluto bomb! *lol*).  This information is priceless!  And this part: "Your mother will always support you by not supporting you - get it?"  Absolutely!  This is something I've always felt in my bones, I'm to make my way through this world basically alone, with some I can use for touchstones, but I'm supposed to figure it out on my own.  Find the nugget (with or without help), polish it up, display it and use it to help others find their nugget.  *nodnodnod*

persian, I am definitely going to look at that information.  In fact, you'll probably see a lot of "WTF does this mean?" posts in the upcoming weeks. 

Lynne, thanks.  You know, a lot of the time, all it takes is someone else saying, "You have a right to feel what you're feeling" to make it all better.  I sincerely appreciate it.  (((Lynne)))

ambidee, I am feeling MUCH better.  Thank you!  Do you have your chart posted around here anywhere?  I'd be interested in checking it out. 

Thank you, peppermint, that seriously made my day!  Now if we get another Soldier gem, I can smile halfway through work.  *laughs*  And I know eventually I'll forgive, if never forget.  But things like that take a loooong time for me and that's the one I'm not rushing, even if I'm rushing everything else. 

SaDiablo, thankyou, my pleasure! respect to the crew on board here. Quite a team!

It was my pleasure as well.