http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na

Breaking News AlertThe New York TimesMon, November 16, 2009 -- 5:00 PM ET-----

"In Reversal, U.S. Guidelines Urge Mammograms at 50, Not 40

Most women should start regular breast cancer screening atage 50, not 40, according to new guidelines released Mondayby an influential group that provides guidance to doctors, insurance companies and policy makers.

The new recommendations reverse longstanding guidelines and are aimed at reducing harm from over treatment according to the group the United States Preventive Services Task Force.  It also says women age 50 to 74 should have mammograms less frequently -- every two years, rather than every year. And it said doctors should stop teaching women to examine their breasts on a regular basis."

 

 

This seems truly strange to me.  truly strange.  what do you think?

I can't see the harm in self examinations...

I'd want to see the studies that show that it's detrimental to start at 40. Seems very fishy to me.

call me a damn cynic, but i see this as preparation for universal health care.

In the article:

"Congress requires Medicare to pay for annual mammograms. Medicare can change its rules to pay for less frequent tests if federal officials direct it to. Private insurers are required by law in every state except Utah to pay for mammograms for women in their 40s."

Do you think that has something to do with it? 

I'm a Canadian, which gives me a particular view on universal health care. I also lived in the UK for some years and they have it, too.

Goddess, do you think the astrological community will talk about this or is it too sensitive of a topic? I can't make head or tails of anything to do with the US system because I don't live within the same parameters. 

Oh boy, be patient with me.  I am a Sag with mercury their natally, and now mercury moved into Sag.  You just put me on a soapbox.

I am going to approach this with pure cynacism.  If every woman I have ever known personally that has battled breast cancer took this approach,  they would now be dead.

Pluto in Capricorn at work here. But hey look at all the money their insurance companies would have saved, had they not received treatment.  Universal health care,  here it comes.  Brave New World, at what age do women become no longer useful to society? 

By age 50 women are in some stage of menapause,  and our breast change.  What no baseline,  no documentation of the changes.  So much for early detection, early cure. WTF,  cure someone who has outlived their usefulness. 

I am sorry those suggested guidelines are a death sentence to many, many women.

I trust me, not governments, scientific studies or doctors that spend an entire 10 minutes almost listening to what I'm saying while they are scribbling on a piece of paper.

I have in the past flat out refused certain tests and medicine which later turned out to be the correct decision in each case.

Telling women not to check their own breasts seems like a major red flag to me.

I also think it is insurance companies.

I read my insurance company letter today, rejecting me for a MRI to check my aorta for aneurysms (which I am apt to have, due to an underlying condition). They said it is  because I don't currently have symptoms of an aortic dissection LOL.

And Blue Cross Blue Shield gets over a BILLION dollars in subsidies from the federal government.

Jilly would you ever be in a position to do something like go here? Would you want to?

http://www.cmi-matamoros.com/index.html
 

My husband and I were thinking about that for dental work but there's been so much drug killings down there...

I guess that would be an option. I'm going talk to some other folks with this ailment & see if they have had any luck with their insurance company's grievance process, because I can go through  that.

Jilly if you can't work out something with your insurance company, I would go to your local TV station and get their investigative reporter after them. Nothing like a reporter and a camera crew to get people's ass in gear.

Well, with my strong family history, I will keep up with my yearly mammographys (maternal grandmother and mother both died of it).   

That really sucks Jilly - I hope you can fight them on this.

Our healthcare insurance has also been deteriorating, and we supposedly have one of the better ones out there.  They greatly raised the co-pay on my daughter's medication, and alot of forcing of generic brands.   

This sounds like the changing of an official guideline. Individual doctors are still free to practice and recommend what they want to. Not sure how this affects insurance coverage - independent companies will prob use it as an excuse not to cover mammograms for women in their 40s. For the government, however, not sure the burden changes. Medicare still covers older women and will continue to cover that cost. 

This makes me want to run around and yell. What the hell are they thinking? Doctors should be promoting prevention, not disregarding it.

This is straight up bullshit. 

yeah... this is bs.  my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer at her 2nd preliminary mammogram... at 37.

jilly, i hope you can fight the system.  i think if enough people wake up and speak up we can do something about this.  this is a sick system our politicians & corporate big cats (who probably have more say than the politicians themselves) have trapped us in..

This is such an emotive subject and I truly do not want to upset anyone by airing views whch at the end of the day are personal, which is that mammography statistically is not the best detection screening, that it is barbaric and that if men had to endure mammograms ( and I DO know about male breast cancer) they would have invented something a lot better.

Yes it IS a screening process, and yes that has to be a good thing in theory. My connections and informants are in medical research and medical treatment, and what I understand from everything I'm told is that more and more medical professionals might well opt for a different form of screening. Thermography.

I have fibrocystic breast disease (benign, thankfully, gratefully, but have had many many procedures)

My family has a history of breast and ovarian cancer on both sides and I have lost some very dear people, one just ten days ago, and a friend is about to get some results on Thursday, another friend has had a double mastectomy a couple of months ago at a young age too, so if I thought we should be banging on to get more mammos, I certainly have good reason to. 

Thermography, I am told has a far more accurate record and does not entail flattening your breast in a metal vice while irradiating it.

My sources are good, all medical, one being privvy to global medical research results, but I do not hold them up here to be the holy grail.. I would though, gently suggest that it may be worth checking out Thermography. 

Sorry for going on a bit here!..So so hope your mum has been well Little Lou, and appreciate your gratitude for mammos, absolutely.

It just concerns me that we need progress, and to campaign to keep the old methods because you distrust your government's motivations (and of course you know more about that than I do)  may not be your best tactic. Fight for your screening, and fight for it to be the best that science can offer.  

Jilly, I so wish you well, think of you and send healing thoughts often.

LE

Lindaloo I'm just concerned that a better treatment won't be offered.

Plus the insurance companies have a history, I'm not sure how to put it, of getting out of paying for what they should by law pay for. That goes for medical and personal property.

At least twice my state government has forced my insurance company to send me a refund for over charging me. Who knows how much they have gotten away with across the board. 

Thanks Tam, that's exactly what I wanted to say too--I just couldn't word it--"I'm just concerned that a better treatment won't be offered".

It's a lot easier to disprove something than it is to come up with an alternative.

Not being privvy to your healthcare systems, I truly do respect your comments, Tam and Alicia. Thanks for posting.

I cannot imagine what it must be like to have to fight for funds to pay for your healthcare, although we do often have to push for deeper investigation into health issues, which is also to do with funding, and I do wonder, had my mum been in the US her MD might have been more motivated to get her some tests instead of her GP here in UK sending her home telling her repeatedly over a year that  she had colic, when in fact she had ovarian cancer..you can I am sure imagine how this makes me feel, and how strongly I care about accurate screening for all types of cancer, although breast and ovarian have a genetic similarity.

We may be at cross purposes in that the issue for you guys is governmental resistance to funding adequate screening, while I'm saying get into the fight for the future, and push, also for the latest technology to be used for better screening. You're worth it xx

ps Satori thankyou for a really thought provoking discussion and Tam I luv ya xx

Thanks Lindiloo, I certainly appreciate your concern and thoughts as well.

I have a similar story to your mom's--my fiance's mother kept going to the doctor with "pneumonia" for over a year, till finally she had accidentally fallen into a manhole (dumb luck?) which prompted doctors to do a PET scan and they found stage 3B lung cancer. It's unfortunate, but there are dirty hands everywhere when it comes to who does what wrong.

And I absolutely agree with you, we definitely need funding to go to all levels--current care and adequate screening as well as future (more efficient) technologies, etc.

i didn't see them really address self-screenings, to the folks that mentioned that, other than to say they have no datae. but since there are no physical dangers with self-screening or costs unless someone finds something, they'd be hard-pressed to come out against it.

kashmiri, i wouldn't be surprised if astrologers talked about it. but the politics here have been insane with saturun/uranus opp a while back. people have been so emotional about it for so long, i don't know how objective anybody is.

lindiloo, i think most folks would be fine with a more effective treatment - advances are great!

my personal belief is that many politicians here are beholden to commercial interests. while i'm a fan of capitialism, having the folks who make the regulations in bed with the folks who stand to gain or lose millions on the regulations is a system ripe for corruption.

i think with the move here towards some kind of health care reform, we'll be seeing a string of this kind of thing in a preemptive attempt to control anticipated costs. so i guess i officially have my tinfoil hat out as i smell conspiracy. snort.

"had my mum been in the US her MD might have been more motivated to get her some tests instead of her GP here in UK sending her home telling her repeatedly over a year that  she had colic" ((Lindaloo))

My best friend is originally from England, and she said had her father been in America he wouldn't have died as soon (or at all) from colon cancer. I can't imagine how that must feel for anyone who has had this experience.

"so i guess i officially have my tinfoil hat out as i smell conspiracy. snort."

I want a shiny hat!

I read in the newspaper here (Netherlands) too that doctors suggest women no longer do self-examination. Research has shown it isn't effective... It sounds very strange to me. At least it's not an American conspiracy- maybe that puts your mind at rest (somewhat).

That said...no idea why they would want to downsize the mammograms pogramme. It sounds like simple costcutting to me :-( :-( 

"my personal belief is that many politicians here are beholden to commercial interests. while i'm a fan of capitialism, having the folks who make the regulations in bed with the folks who stand to gain or lose millions on the regulations is a system ripe for corruption."

 This fits with my thoughts on this too, Goddess. Personally I have gone out of my way to steer clear of mainstream medical docs for years and have only recently found a naturopathic doctor I like. Was more strongly influenced by my Christian Science grandmother than I thought. 

MRI was approved - for intense crush alert day haha

http://www.elsaelsa.com/archives/2009/11/10/transit-watch-november-19-2009-intense-crush-alert/

YAYAYAYAYAY! Jilly I'm so happy to hear of it! (under the circumstances) What a day indeed!

You got something from your insurance company. I tip my hat and bow to you, Jilly. Clearly you have some mojo going on. Congrats.

Good luck Jilly and may your MRI bring good results for you, it's the very least you deserve.

Goddess, Neith I'm with you..and I do self exam and have caught every one of my own too many to count now, benign cysts ..and I know this may appall some, but I am following my own instinct and I don't go for any more mammo's.. I have talked with various respected medical professionals over the years and  actually they see my reasoning as sound. One, a friend in her 50's, who is a high ranking oncology nurse recommends the new screening of thermography as leaps and bounds more efficient and less invasive and she does not have mammos either.Unfortunately thermography is new here and we don't have easy access to it, but we can take a short flight to the Isle of Man for it. Again, it would be self funded, therefore expensive.

My late much loved mum spent the last couple of years of her life while battling ovarian cancer, raising awareness and funds for screening and treatment of cervical cancer and reached her target of buying a laser which was named  by the hospital, after her. She didn't have cervical cancer but because she learned that there was this amazing laser that could cure so many young women and keep them well, with their families , she made that her project.

Effective screening of ovarian cancer is now a step closer too. Ovplex.. ask for it.

One of the most special moments in my life was in May 2006 when I crossed the Atlantic to do a sponsored walk in NYC, the Revlon Runwalk, with my best friend a 9yr survivor of ovarian cancer..40 thousand women and children and a good number of guys, all in glorious harmony walking, running, fighting battles, winning, struggling, hoping, united. It's amazing what we can do when we put our energies together.

Most breast cancers are discovered through self exam, as far as I have understood, again from professionals... so I'll carry on with that !  Be well, friends  xx

I helped my boss make a "free mammograms" machine costume for Halloween.  We're real mature like that.

big chuckle, Notatirem! Thanks for the image that brought to mind..how you keeping?

Notatirem, what a hoot!!

YAY Jilly!!! I'm so happy to hear that!

"At least it's not an American conspiracy- maybe that puts your mind at rest (somewhat)."

Not really. But I appreciate the thought. :)

One of my best friends had breast cancer detected with a routine mammogram at age 43. Now, maybe she'd have been okay if she'd waited another 7 years? I dunno. But I'm damn glad I don't have to find out one way or the other.

I hope I'm way off base, but I think we'll be see much more of the same in the coming months.

HAHA

Got a call - MRI rescheduled until Monday.

I'm sure you think you're funny, universe.

I have always been suspicious of taking mamograms starting at 40.  I think if you have a family risk of breast cancer or if you indulge in risk factors (smoking and drinking) maybe you should.  However - I had one at 40, 42, 43, and the one at 43 the technician was using all sorts of fear and scare tactics on me (it was a control thing) - and she broke blood vessals in both breasts.  I am 48 and I have not been back since.  I told my gynecologist I will start regular mamograms at 50.  My take on it is it is one of those bread and butter type of procedures with a low benefit.  A higher benefit would be getting genetic testing to see if you have the breast cancer gene - and if you do - then going in to get the yearly exams.  Shooting radiation through breast tissue (and that is what they are doing with mamograms) cannot be good - and studies have proven that in most case self examination is as good as the mamogram.  It was the broken blood vessals that turned me against it.  

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/701881

http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/FactSheet/Diet/fs13.alcohol.cfm

consuming alcohol creates an increased risk of breast cancer.

so the article was a vindication of a personal decision of mine - but I think you need to do what you are comfortable with - which includes getting the mamogram.  I personally never miss a dental cleaning.  I never miss a pap smear either.

K 

That's my view too K, on the basis of a great deal of consideration of available information. My decision may bite me on the butt one day, but as you say the genetic issue is relevant, although not conclusive in that you can have the gene and be cancer free, but if you do then maybe that's where you have to up accurate screening sessions.

I have been told by someone at the cutting edge of scientific research reporting on global developments as a qualified medical practitioner, that the gene I carry for the Fibrocystic breast disease (benign) is the opposite code to the breast cancer gene, which is reassuring.

Very personal and emotive issue, and someone I know was yesterday given an all clear, so truly do connect with everyone here. 

http://www.prlog.org/10043354-breast-cancer-screening-women-in-the-know-turn-to-thermography.html

 Yup, Goddess, more news on this same front, different test. This time for cervical cancer.

 http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/11/20/pap.cervical.cancer/index.html

Vaccinations are over here in UK for teenage girls for that one now, Neith..not sure how it is in US?  Sexual activity commencement is a big factor in when to start screening I'd think?

I can see the politics in these reports though..and so share in the frustrations. Doing that Revlon Runwalk in NYC 2007, meant that myself and my dear (medical) friend who were doing that together, were able to meet and speak with and compare notes with a lot of US citizens, too. Right with you sisters.

Thing is our healthcare system is just as political although I do think better in some ways. Not so good in others.

I asked one of the female docs at our health centre if I could pay for a screening for the ovarian cancer that's in our family and was told no, that it wasn't available unless I was presenting symptoms, which, statistically speaking tends to happen once that nasty lil one is well advanced. Catch 22.

Satori really got us talking, huh..

I do want to clarify that I have NO issue with people who decide not to get these screenings. I haven't had health insurance since the early nineties and get very little medical care of any form, let alone routine screenings.

it's just the apparent politicization/cost-analysis basis of medical decisions that disturbs me. i completely respect individual choice for medical descions (and would like it to stay that way). 

Neith- Yep...