This is not meant as a denigrate the rich thread and I hope it doesn't turn into anything like that because it's not my intention or thought process.  I wrote about this about 10 years ago before it became fashionable to slam people with resources, even lots of resources which is something I don't agree with, even the least little bit.

What I realized back then was that people who gave, always seemed to have something to give, where people who did not give (whether they are rich or poor, it makes no difference) always seemed bereft. 

I realize this is just my perspective. It is my perspective that Joe Biden is bereft having donated less than $400 to charity in a year as reported on his income taxes.  Now he may no agree. You may not agree.  But my observation, both then and now is that people who give, always have something on hand. It's uncanny.

Like I write this blog. I give.  I give everyday for 11 years and I am nowhere near out of ideas.

I posted this because, Jilly has little. She has very little. She has so little that I held a gift card drive for her once. She doesn't even have her health, yanno?  But she constantly gives. Constantly! Not just to me and my family, but to people on this blog. I know she does! I know because she buys things for others with the little she does has and I think this is  remarkable. 

It's Jupiter, yanno? If you want to have, then give because people who do are never, ever bereft.

We're all going remember Jilly's giving, aren't we? I suspect she has less than anyone in this community and how many of us has received a gift from, Jilly, hmm?

Seriously!

I agree with your perspective, Elsa. I was thinking about this in church this morning. I give x amount of money for every collection and today there were two collections. My mom always thinks I give too much money, she says I shouldn't give that much because I don't make that much and I'm a student, yada yada yada.

But I always find the money to give somewhere and I'm never wanting in another area of my life because I donated too much at church. I figure whatever, I'm just gonna keep writing that check 'cause I'm positive it will come back around to me and it does. In one way or another.

See, I read that Joe Biden gave less than $400 to charity in a year, per his taxes.  That is a bereft MF'er in my mind. I'm sorry but I just can't see it. I have Leo and I have Jupiter AND Capricorn for that matter. I hate cheap people, for one but also, I believe that people have a responsibility to contribute *something* and when they shirk this, it's almost as if they're sub-human. I realize that's harsh but it's honestly how I feel. I don't like takers. Talk to me when you join the human race.

8th house too.  Energy EXCHANGE.

* edit, it was actually 300 and some, so I changed it to less than $400. NOw do you believe this man cares about you? LOLOLOL

Yeah, $300. That is pathetic!!

Jilly gave more than Joe Biden last year. Something ain't right in the milk. :)

"I don't like takers. Talk to me when you join the human race."

I feel the same way.

Also, my parents set a good example. They fed a lot of people for free, etc.

Yeah, too much rBGH (bovine growth hormone, lol).

Wow, only 300? That's truly repulsive.

The other Jupiter thing is that it requires perspective. Go to wherever for a day and shit in a hole and drink trash-filled water and then decide if you can't shell out $5 for the guy ringing the bell outside of the grocery store. 

Linda Goodman talked about all this in Star Signs. She said it was a Universal Law

Give Out = Get Back

The crazy thing is that Joe Biden probably has been around the world and seen what I described. Right? Oh well.

Wow!! That totally lowers my opinion of the man.

Now, I don't know that this is the case for Biden, and a quick search didn't turn up info one way or the other for him...Maybe he doesn't give--period. But I wanted to say just for fairness sake that a tax return is only a measure of what someone has claimed for deduction.

If one were to look at TAB's tax return, for example, you'd have to call him out as a stingy, uncaring SOB, for there is a big fat $0 there.  Which is because TAB gives and gives time, money, resources, etc...and cannot be bothered to collect a receipt or jot down a note period. 

I've actually bugged him about it but he just shrugs and continues to not be bothered with the 'get back' part of his giving.  Plus, as he points out--what's he gonna do? Ask the lady in the out of gas car, or the hard-up neighbor for a receipt? (darned Aries Moon is just moving too fast to get bogged down with the hassle).

Please note though, that I *do* agree that experience (and most of the research done on this issues) totally jives with the observation that it is those with less/the least to give who most often and more generously give. 

Cool point, CP :)

I just went to facebook to check on a family member in afghanistan & there were a bunch of posts by someone i went to school with about how much [people like me] suck &they are evil and stingy. Haha.

"OK, so Mormons are supposed to tithe 10 percent of their income. But it's to Romney's immense credit that he promised to do this in his youth and followed through with that - to the tune of scores of millions (maybe hundreds of millions) of dollars throughout his life.

In fact, in those two years, he paid 16 percent of his income to charity, compared to, er, 2.6 percent by Newt Gingrich.

And what about President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden in the run-up to their 2008 campaign?

USA Today broke it down here. In 2007, the Obamas gave more than $240,000 to charity, about 5.7 percent of their income. The Bidens gave an average of $369 to charity a year for the decade before he moved to the Naval Observatory - about 0.3 percent of their income. Back in 1997, then veep Al Gore and his then wife Tipper gave $353.

Since becoming veep, Biden hasn't become much more generous. In 2010, he gave $5,350, about 1.4 percent of income. That same year, Romney gave some $3 million. The national average is about three percent...."

http://harndenblog.dailymail.co.uk/2012/01/much-ado-about-nothing-mitt-romney-is-very-rich-he-also-gave-millions-to-charity-and-the-taxman.html

And that article cites this one:

"Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden and his wife gave an average of $369 a year to charity during the past decade, his tax records show...."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-09-12-biden-financial_N.htm

My husband and I give more than 10%.

<deleted for reasons of shyness!>

"Al Gore gave like $269," my husband said.  "And people trust someone like that to make laws that affect their lives. I wouldn't trust someone like that with Bic lighter."

Biden has Sun /Venus in Scorpio conjunct his Sadge ascendant. His comfort may come first. Natal Jupiter, chart ruler in 8th, other people's money. Mercury ruler of 8th in 12th. Natal Jupiter trines Mercury. Pluto in Capricorn is transiting his 2nd house. He may be conserving or that is his nature. :-)

I agree that to give is to receive, and learned that too via Linda Goodman's Star Signs (nod to McKenna!) and through experience.

first, i heard that this thing about Biden's deduction was a rumor, and not true...don't know if that is true either! forbes.com says it was over $5000 out of his joint 300K income last year. I don't care either way.

But  point is I have to disagree that to not have a big charitable tax deduction on your return makes you a "bereft MF" and "subhuman". Guess you are referring to me then, as I don't give to many formal charities. Less than $400 per year on my return most years, yep, occasionally even $0 on my return. Thats not to say I don't give to anyone ever, as I might buy raffle tickets in my home town for a charity, or give a dollar to the homeless dude, or the bell ringer, or to family who needs help. Or help a friend or coworker with time or a helping hand or a gift that is a labor of love or an herbal remedy. I know thats peanuts, yes it is. I just am not a church goer, and have few charities that I trust to use donations in the manner intended. I don't think that makes me less than human. Seems very judgemental.

Maybe I'm a monster. Second house Saturn in detriment? Overly conservative with resources? Perhaps.

Please don't misquote me. What I said was that I felt TAKERS were subhuman and I stand by that.

Here is the quote:

"I don't like takers. Talk to me when you join the human race."

You, Vajra, exchange energy.  You do it on this blog...

The whole tax aspect of this is interesting. I've never claimed anything on my income tax re: giving. I just give what I can, whatever the resource might be that I can give.

Sidenote: I used to yap about it, for some reason. I don't anymore.

And I'm not clear on the "give to get" concept. I think more along the lines of: If I help someone out that person may someday help someone else out.

Also, I have a really weird tendency to lose money. No joke. And it's not like I can afford it. It used to make me really mad. Until I decided that it might be possible that whoever found it might need it more than me.  I'm sure some people might think that is utterly ridiculous. It just is. Weird factoid # 48 in my life. 

People say I give a lot, even though I don't make a lot. My husband often thinks I give too much. But I believe in the law of recopcrity. About 2 1/2 years ago I taught a clarinet student whose mom was on social assistance due to her mom having a physical disability (her mom was a single mom) who was planning to go on to study music at university. But she had very little to no money to pay for lessons, they were living in subsidized housing. So I had her work for me in exchange for lessons and materials, sometimes I would even give her bus fare if she didn't have enough. I even paid for a couple of her exams from the conservatory. She got excellent marks on both the exams, got accepted with major scholarships, got into an ensemble which first-year clarinetists are usually NOT in, she's doing extremely well in all her courses, got scholarships for second year, and will get some for third year. And she got advanced placement for her piano skills and only had to take the advanced course for harmony.

Even my mom and my favourite cousin say I give a lot at Christmas and the birthdays of his two daughters. And they do the same for me. I've had years when it's been tight, but I've never gone into debt for purchasing gifts in my adult life (always pay cash, and the only credit card I have is a prepaid one).

Meri

People who have little may realize how important a little is. I'm baffled at the low numbers of giving by Biden and Gore. Completely baffled.

I give daily. It's very much the little things at the right time that make such a huge difference.

*Cheers* to Jilly and all those like her :)

I give a lot but don't ask for a receipt often at all!  I don't claim what I give on taxes so one could not tell what I give by that.

I am a very generous person and give a lot and always have but claiming it is not my style. I agree with CP, thare are a lot of people who don't aske for receipts.

I just about devastating to me. I just can't seem to speak without causing strife of someone to feel bad.  A couple days ago, Annalisa told me she missed my free speech on these boards - she noticed I was being more careful.  Well she was right about that.  Then came this issue, which I clearly feel strongly about but I just can't say anything without hurting feelings.

I am sorry about this and will continue to be careful - very careful - because I just don't want the strife in my life - it make me sick, as I explained here:

http://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/2010/05/07/1-minute-astrology-libra-struggles-in-strife-filled-enviroment/

For the record and for the last thing I am going to say on this subject, I DO NOT FEEL THAT MONEY is the only form of energy that has value.

http://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/2011/09/09/venus-love-and-money/

Now I am going to focus on the blog. Focus on consultations. Focus on other projects because this other has just run it's course in my life.  You've just got to find a new dirt bag is all because I'm tired of carrying the projection, you people who could not apologize or own your shit, to save your life.

I know that I give endlessly and never feel it's enough, yet our tax forms won't show it.  It's just not something that I'm gonna do.  I give because I give, not to show anyone or 'deduct'.  We might be a bit better off if I did take the time to get receipts, etc. but I give when I give and for no other reason than it's right by me.  I feel I'm lucky to be in a position, that I don't have to show or prove what I give.

As for others, they'll have their day.  Still, it does go against the grain for those in office, that are supposed to 'serve the public' not to be giving.  I mean these people make more than enough money and since their time is supposedly all timed up 'serving the public' that's how they give, right?  I don't know how good or reliable a source someone's taxes are, but the term 'filthy rich' comes from somewhere. 

If you took offense at this post, then maybe a little self-reflection might be helpful to understand why.  It's a beautiful day to learn and evolve :)
Angie

No worries, Elsa, not meaning to misquote ya. Misunderstood I guess, as it seemed like the focus was on how much charitable tax deduction one had as a measure of worthiness, and I "resembled that remark" so felt bad about myself, seeing many people say how awfully "pathetic" and "repulsive" giving "only" $300 on your return was (not quoting you, but others who followed.)

Still, makes me wonder, where I might give more. I probably still won't be one to give to big charities as it just isn't transparent enough to me how the money is used (and think since I don't have lots of money to give, what I do have can be better used by my distributing it directly), but I'd like to work on developing generosity in general and giving in as many ways as I can. I've actually been thinking about how to cultivate the spirit of generosity lately.

((((Elsa))))

I've received gifts from Jilly!

I believe that those who give, always have something to give, yep! I am never without, though I'm going to die trying to get rid of it all!

@Annalisa  I don't tend to ask for a receipt, either. If I worry about trying to figure out how much every item costs, etc, etc., I'll never get them out of the house! It's easier to bring it to Goodwill and be done with it. 

You know what's interesting, too? Recently I looked around the house and noticed that a LOT of my things were given to me. Fell into my lap, or came to me at a low price. Huh. I'm wondering if that's part of the give/receive dynamic?

((((Elsa))))

It gave me pause too Vajra as I have neptune and NN in the 2nd.. I feel it's nuts to give stuff to people who already have tons of stuff.. and I think savings are meant to be savings. I donate to Plan canada now regularly. And some Amnesty internationally. Giving to those who have access to help makes me uncomfortable. Am I contributing to their demise?? So I give in other ways. I don't bug them for one. I leave the more practical giving to the practical folks. They know what to do.  And I fill up a bag of food at holidays for the food drives. win-win. I give in ways I know help and not just add to the issue. And I give humour, empathy and insight to loved ones.

Elsa was referring to making millions and giving $300. I mean how much lack does that person feel???? That's a void that will never be filled. IMO. Step away from the void.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/bidens-donate-15-percent-income-charity-2011_636971.html

"In other words, the Bidens donated less than 1.5 percent of their adjusted gross income to charity."

"The president and his family were more charitable, giving nearly 22 percent of their adjusted gross income in 2011 to charitable causes"