What is the criteria for someone to be considered Plutonian?  Is a Scorpio ASC enough to be considered that?  What are your thoughts on this?

Major aspects to Pluto? hmm...loads of Scorpio?

Shell, possibly (re: Scorpio ASC).. if you also had Pluto in Scorpio conjunct?

I think Pluto aspects and Scorpio like Bretagne said. Also emphasis on 8th House. One of my sisters has "no Scorpio" and a Venus ruled chart, but she has Pluto conjunct her ASC (on the 12th House), Pluto in multiple major aspects, and 8th House Sun and Moon. She is Plutonian, alright!

Pluto in the first house surely casts a Plutonion vibe -- but I'm starting to feel Plutonion feels different, very different, from Scorpionic? Any thoughts on this?
Shall we parse? :)

For example, for sure I'm Plutonion with my 1st house stuff but my only scorp planet is neptune, which is generational.

My Pluto does make many aspects too--

i don't know what the "official" answer is on this, but i consider my daughter Plutonian. She has Scorp moon and Mars, Merc & Venus in her 8th house, along with her generation Pluto in Scorpio. She definitely has that vibe about her (and makes some people nervous, although she wouldn't attack melted butter for Godsakes).

Loads of Scorp here in 1st house & 12th, & ascendant, but an empty 8th house!  Think I'd be classified as Scorpionic rather than Plutonic, since my Pluto is in Virginal Virgo in the 10th house = death, rebirth, rehab, reduce, reuse, recycle, rinse, repeat. 

Between check-ins here, I spent the morning rehabbing an old easel w/a new bright coat of turquoise paint, right after I touched up some gouged furniture scratches on another piece of furniture that's getting ready to be sold. 

I would not consider a Scorpio rising, "plutonium" as the rising sign is veneer. Put ruler Pluto in Scorpio conjunct the ascendant and I would change my mind.

I don't know that anyone can define this for anyone other than themselves but if I were going to try, I would be looking at a person's essence.

One person may be transcendent for example, a Neptune / Pisces type. Another may be a strong Saturn figure. A Plutonian would have deep impact on anyone they were closely associated with.

Another thing to note is many people strongly represent more than one energy and I am an example of this. That I have a strong Plutonian vibe is undeniable but I can just as easily be defined as "Mercurial" or "Saturnian" or even "Jupitarian" or "Neptunian". 

My point is if you an instrument is just an instrument until someone tunes it and learns to play it.

There is such a  thing as a limp double Scorpio, I have met them in my time for sure.  Yesterday I spoke with a gal who had Venus conjunct Pluto in Virgo and she was keen as they come. I would characterize her as "Plutonian" and the other as nothing / null and void.

It's like having a good singing voice. If you opt not to sing, then you're not a singer.

I have Gemini Sun in 8th house, squared by Pluto, and I have had deeply Plutonian -themed dreams throughout my life.   I always remember them in vivid detail, and the memory of them stays with me forever.  

I.E., In one of these dreams about three years ago, I was standing at my door leading to the outside deck, it was dark out, and the Death Figure suddenly appeared grabbed me by my shirt collar, and dragfed me outside, never letting me go.  I was just flying through the darkness with him (and then I wake up). 

In another dream, like 20 years ago, I was walking in intensely bright sunshine, and headed inside to a house, where I found my then-boyfriend.  He was lying in a bed in a very dark room, and we began to make love, but the entire time my eyes were following the only drop  of sunlight, which was shining on the floor.  In that circle of sunlight was a tiny insect carrying a pencil.  

And most recently, I dreamt I was in a bus station in Italy of all places, overlooking a platform where a row of dark-suited men carrying briefcases waited to get on a train.  I was mesmorized.  In this dream, I was with a lover, and he wandered off into a tiled bathhouse.  I eventually followed him, waded into the water, and he appeared lost and sad.  I tried to convince him to come out of the water.   Eventually I got out of the pool, looked out longingly to the rolling hills outside, then turned back and found my lover sitting on the edge of a bed, looking defeated and sad.  Again I went to him, and I climbed onto the bed and embraced him from behind, hugging him, feeling despair that I could not shake his melancholy.  

I think I have no choice but to express my plutonian energy, hopefully for good, in my waking life, otherwise these dreams would just haunt me.  It is always a challenge though.  Always.  Does anyone else here have Plutonian-themed dreams?

Maureen sounds similar to my dreams. They have always been vivid and STRANGE.

They usually have to do with possesion or exorcising demons from a house or from myself. Very vivid and intense. There is one dream that I will never forget I was dating this guy we lived together and he was a liar, fake, with lots of probs.In the dream I walked into this room and he was on the floor naked giving himself a bj ,lol, I know impossible, then he kept comsuming himself and couldn't stop and he was crying for me to help. He turned into a snake and then consumed himself until he disappeared. I was totally freaked I will never forget that. Sometimes I see a symbol of a snake in the form of a circle consuming his tail, not sure what that means.

I have a 12th house Gemini Sun and lots of aspects to my Pluto. But no 8th house planets.

Miss, wow.  It's nice to know I'm not alone!  :)

While out researching "plutonian" on the web, I ran across this interesting tidbit about this guys version of a Plutonian generation.

http://radium-sf.blogspot.com/2009/01/tk-generation-1854-63.html

and on ElsaElsa before:

http://www.elsaelsa.com/archives/2008/11/15/am-i-a-plutonian-lets-get-some-criteria-goin-here/

and Maureen & Miss, those are some doosie dreams!  Wow!  Thanks for sharing them. 

i have pluto in the first house conj asc so i would say im a plutonian. i also have venus in scorpio in the first house but im not sure if that counts. i have mercury in the first house conj pluto too.

Youngest daughter and I both have pluto in major aspects to almost all planets and angles. She is part of the scorp/pluto generation and while her pluto is rising it is just behind her ASC in 12th. No other planets till well into the 2nd.

I feel like her plutonian manifests so much differently than mine. More covert, I suppose. :) I also feel like she is not owning her power, but she is also just turning 18, so I remind myself daily to relax about it, it will come in time. It is hard though to sit back and watch all of her drama's play out, and there are ton's of them everyday now, and while they may look different on the surface, underneath it's all the same root...a wakeup call to own her 'stuff' and to become self-empowered.

I think she is way ahead of me chronologically though..it took me until my 30's, and only now am I becoming comfortable with my self-empowerment, maybe that is an advantage to her pluto placement? 

My older daughter is also scorp/pluto generation, but has a huge(6 planet) 6th house Sag. stellium with pluto conj. mars-exact, in the 5th...and she truly owns her power in really positive ways for herself.

I consider myself Plutonian, even though the only Scorpio I have is in my 3rd House Neptune.  That said, I have Pluto conj. my Virgo Ascendent and Uranus, and the whole deal aspects a large part of my chart.

What that makes me I don't know, but I have learned to love who I am.

 Donna Cunningham has a very interesting article on that. I scored 44 on her test.

Best,

Syd

http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/01/16/how-strong-is-your-pluto-here%E2%80%99s-the-score/

Syd, thanks for the link!  Interesting, the test was just posted today.  I got a 45, and anything over 25 is considered "strongly Plutonian".  A lot of the questions (good and bad qualities) got a "yes" from me, too. 

I scored 25 if I include the Pluto-Jupiter opposition in my chart which is just barely in orb. I didn't count Pluto sextile Asc either because it wasn't in the checklist. 20 sounds about right when Scorpio and Neptune sextile Pluto are added in. It is definitely at least 15 (Moon square Pluto, Mars trine Pluto).  I don't think I'm Plutonian just because of those... I don't know how to judge whether or not actually. Maybe if I am, I'm lousy at using the energy...

But Matt Damon is a mega-Plutonian? I never would have guessed!

HI, folks, I came to see the discussion because I suddenly started getting bunches of clicks to this link. Based on your scores on the test I published today on Skywriter, you seem to be a pretty Plutonian bunch.  I'm hearing from some folks with extreme scores, however, including one 73, and yet they're doing a great job at earnestly working to overcome the more negative side of Pluto and to express the positive sides.

One reason I enjoy visiting this Board from time to time is that Elsa provides such a good place for people to explore themselves and their chart, and particularly a safe space to express the tougher Plutonian parts of their being that so many of us don't get support for in our day to day lives.  Donna Cunningham of Skywriter.

Yeah, I guess I was one of those who was asking "am I plutonian"  I guess I know I am and yet have always emphasized my mercury or my neptune but when I stop and look around I'm always trying to change/improve etc. etc.

I guess I was asking because I'm not so sure I want to look at that part of myself somedays.  I did however take Donna's test and without looking at the minor aspects (I stopped early) and no planets in scorp or 8th house I managed to hit 40.  argh.  That SO explains why some people are threatened by me.  I don't mean to threaten, I don't want to threaten, I realize I'm intense but my focus is, well, elsewhere, not on them, not about them... but I never looked closely and saw that pluto is trine my asc.  whoops.  Live and learn ;)  Funny thing about that.  My chart is all oppositions and squares (love my t-squares ya know) that I never really looked at my trines.  ROFL.  Focus on good stuff there girl.

I took the quiz too. If I did it right, I got a 24.... this is because of my moon pluto conjunction in virgo, which then sextiles or trines lots of other stuff. I'd like to think that my various negative qualities aren't Pluto-related at all but due to other things... :)

Huh. Scored a 52.

Guess being a pornographer for 10 years shouldn't be a big surprise then, to other people or to myself. I figured that was mostly Eros conjunct my midheaven....

I totally grok what mudlikesubstance says about focus and threatening people inadvertently. My head is usually, if not always elsewhere, in some other hemisphere. Usually could not care less about razing someone... but this kind of explains an offhand comment an astrologer made many years ago about being a bull mastiff among chihuahuas.

Just wanted to pop in and say I got a 63 on Donna's Pluto quiz.  I wrote a big comment on the blog Elsa wrote referencing the thread, so I don't want to repeat myself.  *grins*

Got a 48 on the quiz.... figures!

Funny enough I was reading "Healing Pluto Problems" (which was mentioned on the blog) at a bookstore today and after pondering about this post and reading through the book I thought, "Yep, definitely Plutonian" and it makes sense really... which I guess also explains why Pluto transits have been the hardest for me. (more than Saturn)

Neva - I love that comment about bull mastiffs.  SO accurate.  :D

My problem is that I've got neputne in 7th opp. asc. so somedays people see my pluto and somedays they see my neptune.  I usually try to project "nice, helpful, here to serve" but I'm now seeing why pluto throws people for a loop when the fog clears.

That said pluto is tied up with my mars saturn conj. and it so explains my drive.  When I decide something will be fixed IT WILL BE FIXED by my own blood and sweat if necessary.  (not healthy in the long run but it explains to me why my energy behind projects makes them move)

Yeah, this has given me a lot of food for thought.  I did the test for  those of my friends and family that I have birth times for, and I'm one of the few heavy Plutonians.  It explains a lot.  Among many things it helps to explain why some swim along the surface of life, and others cant help but swim deeper, down to the bottom, lift up the rocks to see what's under them, then talk about what they find when no one else wants to...

I was thinking about this topic when I went to bed last night.  Then I thought of Jeff Foxworthy.  

You might be Plutonian if:

--Dogs ALWAYS bark their asses off at you, and you specifically (bonus points if they are in a moving car)

--People stop in mid-sentence and let their jaws drop just because you walk by (bonus points if you didn't even look at them).

--You see dead people (bonus points if they aren't dead (yet))

--Despite your best efforts, people can't help but lose their shit because of you

...and I think Elsa's "Anyone who can stick a small seed in you (an idea or notion) and have it grow like Jack’s Beanstalk is probably Plutonian" is also pretty neat.

Scorp in a Suit, you Win The Internet today.

I got 9.  :chuckle:

 [figured out how to add pic to previous post]

commetn earlier today got eaten :(

oh well.

35. (first time, i forgot the sextiles.)

*shrug* an interesting little exercise.

i think, with plutonian stuff... a lot of how it's expressed is whether or not someone's been tested, and how, and, most importantly, how they responded.  there's positive and negative and grey in all of that.

but without having been burnt, one has less of the inclination (er... need to emerge from a state of razed earth ) to try to understand the underlying forces...

Thx neva!

Scorp,

I just read your comments from 19 hours ago--laughed out loud in my cubicle at work.  I think they're getting used to that around here--haha! 

Thanks for the laughs!

Do you count Neptune sextile Pluto?

I scored 33 on Donna Cunningham's Plutonian quiz. Apparently as a financial planner, I have found my calling. My wife scored 55+.

Scorp in a Suit- Dogs do not bark at her but everyone finds her quite interesting. I always thought it was the Venus Neptune or the Zero Aries Sun with planets in Pisces. That always gets me anyway.      

Nutsy--I aim to please!

Orlando--I would trade places with your wife any day of the week.  Not that I would want to marry you... I mean, I'm sure you'd make a great husband, but you know...

ok, basically what I'm saying is that I'd rather be interesting than have dogs bark at me *phew*

woof woof hahahaha

I consider both Elisabeth Fritzl and Elizabeth Smart "plutonians".... i would say that you don't necessarily have to be a scorpio to be plutonian... but it helps. Tori Amos has Pluto on her Midheaven and Scorpio Rising... she's gone through a lot of trauma and she's constantly transmuting that pain into her art... and using it to help others. sounds plutonian to me. 

I've Pluto on my MC which is in Scorpio... as well as Sun & Mercury ( Which is conjunct Pluto) that are also conjunct my MC... i would consider myself plutonian and martian... lol ( double mars... aries moon ) add a good dose of saturn in ( Cap Asc... Saturn in Cap, 11th house ) for good measure... as elsa said i guess im a mixture of things.

Then again! ( Oh God... here comes the Libra ) I do feel little bits of each area of my chart now and then again... some days one completely dominates everything else ( transit activated much? ) like I do strongly feel my Jupiter in Gemini in my scatterbrainedness and love of words... and my Libra Venus in my desire for peace & harmony... if there isnt peace and harmony ill try my best to make it happen.

But that wouldn't necessarily be entirely relevant because we are talking about dominant planets... :P nevermind

Haha. I just pulled a jupiter in gemini... jump from one topic to another and the another! Someone tie an anchor to my brain. 

My score wasn't too high...23.  Using that quiz with other planets, I'm Virgo Mercurial and Martian (LOL)!  But I have Venus-Pluto conjunct, which is very potent.  James Braha (he wrote this excellent book, How To Be A Great Astrologer) believes that it's the most powerful conjunction of all.  So while I don't consider myself to be Plutonian, there's a strong Pluto undertow.

I have Moon/Mercury trine Pluto and Pluto square Ascendant.  People have called me intense before, which is weird.  I always thought it was the Aquarius Rising, the direct questions, and the lack of boundaries, and the fact that the students in SLC have few other adjectives than "intense" "crazy" and "amazing."  They did call me Crazy Dina the first several months of school mostly because I tried to find out if people had sex by asking everyone if they were on birth control.  I have a Scorpio Midheaven Neptune sextile Pluto. Why I scored 32 on the Pluto test, I don't know.  I'm such a fraidy cat, lately. 

What does in orb mean?

Do you think you can be a fraidy cat and also a Plutonian?

Orlando-- well that's a first.  lol!