Problems with Harmony/Femininity? How about you?

posted 5 months ago in General
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    1.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

          So I've got this problem I just realized. I reject the feminine extremely, knee-jerk fashion. I was raised in a house full of venomous women (pluto in scorp in the 4th) but I don't think this is it. My mother is pretty high femme, nails match the outfit, extensions in her already long hair bleached to white, 4-inch heels on a weekday, you get my drift. My Venus is in the 12th conjunct my Chiron.                                                          

                               All my life I have rejected the feminine. For instance I went through a long period in high school where I would only shop in the men's section because I felt that their clothes were tailored better. Almost all of my friends are male. I feel a tinge of embarassment when I wear make-up or anything "girly" (though I wear it anyways, and would enjoy it if it weren't for this odd shame about enjoying it.) I'll buy heels and dresses periodically, wear them for a week, and then throw them out, sell them, or give them away. I became what some would call a "Radical Feminist" and what others would call a "Feminazi" for a very long time. I'm still a feminist but I mean in the way that every negative stereotype of a feminist portrays. I tried (key word being Tried, and failed) to date women and even went so far as to convince myself that I was transgendered. Something in my head just tells me tomboy > femme. 

                I'm finally coming around to accepting that I am, for the most part, a heterosexual femme woman and as weird as all of this might sound, it is Not Easy for me! I still have my quirks, masculine emotional nature, certain radical politics and whatnot, but when I really look at myself.. I don't like women romanticallly. I don't like to be in the majority and I am FRIGHTENED by harmony! Eeeeek, train wreck. Terrible. Am I some kind of space alien? I have to be.

     One thing that Elsa called to my attention during a reading was that with Uranus opposing my Cancer sun and Aquarius moon that I rebel against my family. I have a feeling that all of this have been a deep seeded need to rebel against my mother. Insane right? Another reason might be that it gives me the chance to battle. I am not sure.

    Can anyone take a look at my chart and elaborate on something I may be missing or even just give me some advice on how to integrate this?

    http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?cid=tq4fileK58YOB-u1247158002;gm=a1;nhor=1;nho2=2;btyp=2;mth=gw;sday=24;smon=9;syr=2009;hsy=2;zod=;orbp=;rs=0;ast=&lang=e&stx2=s=outs=24

    What aspects do you think would be in a person who struggles with the feminine in themselves/others? Do you have aspects like these or notice them in others? How does it play out?

     
    2.
    Lunalie

    I will take a stab at this, but please note I'm still beginning ;) Mars is opposing your moon in 7th so there are projection issues abound. Perhaps due to hostility with the women in your family, you feel like you perceive this as a constant "attack" on you. Another interpretation for this - you're somewhat fighting with your inner "femininity." You associate "femininity" with the hostile women in your past. I get the feeling you desire to express this femininity but are constantly fighting with yourself - "I'm not like THEM!" so to say...

    I also see that you have Moon square Pluto... oh that lovely placement that I know so well :) This is a very transformative natal aspect that can be negative when it comes to relationships (you're prone to being distrustful, jealous, controlling/possessive). There was likely a lot of manipulation in your past. I find that to deal with this natal aspect, you need to learn to calm your mind. Meditation helps a whole lot.

    I'm going to see what else I can contribute tomorrow. I hope this helps... I usually just lurk when people do readings but I figure I'd get my feet wet :D 

     
    3.
    notatirem

    I would like to point out that there is nothing inherently feminine about painted fingernails and high heel shoes.  I think you are buying into a prepackaged definition of femininity just so you can reject it. 

    I think you are rejecting "femininity" because doing so makes you feel empowered.  You've got mars right up on your ASC with Pluto involved.  Hello, power through a masculine facade. Conflicted feelings about all this shit 'cause its opposite your moon. 

    Oh yeah, 11th house Sun opp Uranus, with Aqua moon, you were born to stick it to the man. Its hard to refute the establishment though if you feel yourself drawn to its evils.  Um, maybe just try redefining what it is you're against.  That way you can get what you want and still satisfy your oppositional nature.  You know, define femininity on your own terms and then reject whatever the opposite of that is.

     
    4.
    athenian200

    I personally can't understand why someone would dislike being feminine so much, but then again I'm a boy who wants to be a girl... so I'm probably the worst person to ask.

    I mean, I suppose I can understand being against the idea that you *have* to wear make up, clothes you don't like because they're fashionable, or being judged on your appearance, or even the unequal pay. I'm against that stuff too. But there's a lot of things in femininity that has nothing to do with that. 

    And you know, being a tomboy doesn't mean you're not a girl. Feeling yourself to be a gender physically, and preferring a particular gender of partner has little to do with being "feminine" or "masculine." In case you're curious. 

    I think the best place to start for you might be to look less at the external expressions, like make-up, etc... and try looking at what motivates things. Why do some people seek harmony and avoid conflict? 

     
    5.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    Lunalie--- meditation is my lifeblood! my head and emotions are viciously messy if i don't take a good 30 minutes to meditate daily. yes I DO feel like I am being constantly attacked and while i realized it's projection, i have a hard time keeping that in mind from day to day. thank you.

    notairem-- my bad, i should have said the female "binary gender" code. but that's getting a little wordy.

    "Hello, power through a masculine facade." Holy shit!! yes. pretty much. i saw the power that women in my life didn't have, looked at the men and said "i'll have what you're having, Thank you." knee jerk. i could probably stand to find a new way to employ the mars-pluto stuff i got going on, cuz this is a lot of energy that i know i could use for other things if i could only...

    re-define what i am against... that is very good advice. i feel very attached to the radical community so actively making it known that i identify with some of the major social constructs is going to be... err.. a doozy? i don't know. it's possible that just like with the hardcore masculine dressing if i simply allowed myself to go there with the femme expression i would tire of that as well. i suppose i should try.

    thank you.

     
    6.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    my fear of femininity when i was young came from fears of security, and issues relating to awareness of sexual violence against women. i have many different things to say on the topic now, none of which really fit here. but it was never really about "i hate make-up", let's put it that way.

     
    7.
    SaDiablo

    I started a comment, then lost my train of thought, and came back to find this:

    "I think you are buying into a prepackaged definition of femininity just so you can reject it."

    WERD.  Much more succintly than I was putting it, though.  *laughs*

    The thing that pops out to me is that Venus-Pluto trine.  I think you need to find the power (Pluto) in femininity (Venus), and I think once you recognize the feminine in yourself (not "femme," which is what you seem to be rebelling against, but feminine) you'll find it quite easy (it's a trine, after all).  Keep in mind that powerful women don't have to be all Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct, they can also be Keira Knightly in the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise: distinctly female and feminine, but not "femme."

    You're only twenty.  You have time to play with it and find what works for you.  And you know what?  Most men I know think women in men's button-down shirts are unbelieveably sexy. 

    I went through something similar when I was your age.  I've got Venus-Pluto conjunct trine an Aquarian moon.  I've never wanted to be the traditional western woman and felt very aggrieved that that's what people expected of me.  So I did what I wanted to do!  *laughs*  And what I learned was I could work my feminine wiles with nothing more than a glance, even if I was wearing paint-splattered, holey jeans, a black tee, and some steel-toed shitkickers.
    Unfair, perhaps, but that's one of the benefits of having genitals that dimple instead of dangle. 

     
    8.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    athenian. how do i explain this.... i've been thinking about it. as a traditionally attractive girl i have spent my whole life with people being nice to me because of how i look, commenting on my looks, my looks my looks my looks. cattiness from girls, attention from guys that overstepped my comfort zones and Expectations to uphold this level of attractiveness. it pissed me off. i don't like superficiality, and sweet behavior as a benefit of being good looking is like the ultimate affront to me. so i thought, damn it all to hell, i am going to the other side. this created a lot of opposition, and i felt i got to see what the true nature of people's behavior was like. there is a tangible difference between how i am treated from day to day now than when i dressed in a more ladylike fashion. i feel like i am gotten to the underbelly of human behavior. so in a sense i feel that going back to it will be taking on these superficial social niceties again that i would rather rebuff pre-emptively by being as offputting on the outside as i feel that i really am on the inside. also, my mother put a lot of pressure on me throughout my life to look a certain way, and once i deviated i saw how thin affection can really be. i never want to deal with that again.

     

    plus i tend to like people that defy social constructs, fuck with gender, live radically, yada yada, and this just seems to fit in the basket. in actuality the radical community can be pretty rigid, and if you are not "radical enough" you get ousted. so there's a fear of that as well. i don't want to lose my ties to intelligent, provocative people. i identify with the queer, anarchist, post-leftist community a great deal.

     

     

    hm. never really thought about any of this before tonight so forgive me that i am meandering.

     
    9.
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    Anonymous

    "Unfair, perhaps, but that's one of the benefits of having genitals that dimple instead of dangle. " LMAO. I hear you SaDiablo.

     

    Kashmiri, yes. I am I guess using the rejection of primping as a guard against these things. I think about the possibility of sexual abuse a great deal actually and I want to feel like I kept it off by all means possible. I know that my preception is skewed and in reality ineffective but.. yeah.

    You guys are wonderfully insightful and helpful.

     
    10.
    notatirem

    hahahaha, I was just trying to come up with something that would fit into your cancer/aquarius/sun/uranus/moon theme you having going and I got it....

    Start going out topless! Nothing says defiance in a cancer-y way like boobs.

     
    11.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    LMAO. I really fucking should.

     
    12.
    SaDiablo

    *LMAO @ notatirem*  Yes!  Militant boobs for everyone!

    PS - How sad am I that there are no images when I google "militant boob?"  *wails*

     
    13.
    athenian200

    alphaxys:

    Okay, that actually does make sense. If you feel like people only valued you for your attractiveness, and then you wanted to test them, find people who would value you even if you weren't attractive. That's something I can empathize with on some level.

    About all the social niceties... that's a little harder for me to understand, because I'm very eloquent, polite and abhor crudeness. But on the abstract level of it turning you into something you're not, I can understand it. You're afraid that if you start acting feminine in some ways again, you'll relapse completely and find yourself in the same situation that made you miserable to begin with, right? Well, you just need to set some boundaries ahead of time. What do you like about the feminine? How far will you take it, and where will you draw the line? If you decide this stuff ahead of time rather than just going with the flow, you'll feel more in control, which will make it easier for you.

    And I think what you need are a more moderate group of friends. I don't think it's good to hang around with extremists (conservative or radical), they all have terribly distorted views of reality. In religious terms, you should hang out with agnostics rather than strict religious people and atheists. There really is room to be more independent of the archetypes, if you have the courage. If you stay inside either the radical or the traditional role, you're still not free, you're just on the opposite side of the chessboard.

    Does that make sense? 

     
    14.
    notatirem

    SaDiablo, did you remember to take the safe search off? LOL!

     
    15.
    notatirem

    I found some!!!!! Militant boobs that is.

    http://zombietime.com/breasts_not_bombs/

     
    16.
    SaDiablo

    *dies of joy*  Yay, linkage!  Oh, that was marvelous, with the just the right amount of snark.

    I was really hoping to see some world leaders when I googled, though.  That plus protesting exhibitionists who get no reaction would have just made this the perfect night!

     
    17.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    athenian. i get what you're saying about the radical thing. it's something i'm going to be thinking about for a bit. i dare say that the reasons at least half of the people who are in the radical communtiy are radical is because they have misplaced aggression/power issues among other things but i'll leave it there... gah. you're right though. i used to be VERY passive and I mean passive. i think once i made the switch on the surface i felt safe to be my more aggressive, boundary setting self. it's almost like... i feel like i'm expected to be an archetype instead of an individual. there's that word again, expectation.

    i appreciate politeness but i can sense when it's not genuine, and my idealistic side wishes to only be treated with kindness if it is of the heart. i don't want any assholes around me masquerading as lads and ladies, hiding a grimace behind a smile you know what i mean?

     

     

    oh my god... i just clicked on that link and nearly spit the pop i'm drinking all over the keyboard.

     
    18.
    athenian200

    Oh, my. I KNOW what you mean. About being expected to be an archetype rather than an individual. That one is tough to break free from. You think you've gotten out when you've switched sides, but then you realize it's the same game with different rules.

    I'm very passive myself. Ironically, one of the reasons I find myself behaving that way is because trying to be superficially masculine makes me feel as if I have no identity, which causes me to be MORE passive and dependent despite myself. The more I try to assert myself, the more passive I find myself being. It's weird. The funny thing is, that if I were actually a girl (which I may very well be eventually), I would feel more confident in who I was and possibly be more assertive... sigh, I don't think I'm ever going to be able to make myself fit an archetype, but I think I can eventually change my image to match who I am internally more closely. That's ultimately the best, anyway.

    Fake politeness can be annoying, I know. I think I just prefer to believe that people always mean it when they're polite unless they give me a reason not to. Yeah, I'm an idealist too.

     
    19.
    SaDiablo

    Re: expectations and archetypes

    Be who you want.  Fuck the expectations.  Fuck the archetypes.  Trust me, no one out there takes you as seriously as you take yourself, and trying to fit yourself in the box you think others are holding out to you will only make you miserable.  Archetypes are idealizations, and there is no mortal that can match up; take what you need, discard the rest.  You can't please everyone, so you might as well please yourself.

    One of the best things about being a fallible human is that we can meld any or all of the archetypes to become who we want to be.  *nodnodnod*  Although it may feel so at times, we're not bound by anyone or anything to set a concrete path and never deviate from it.  We shift, we change, we experiment, we progress and sometimes regress.  It's glorious!  And if someone out there is unhappy with your choice?  Tell 'em to go fuck themselves -- it's your life, not theirs.

     
    20.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    "You think you've gotten out when you've switched sides, but then you realize it's the same game with different rules." Definitely. It is best to just be yourself, once the concept of "yourself" is more or less parsed. I'm a radical being either way, I don't really have to try on top of it.

     Good luck athenian. I cannot imagine the hurdles of transitioning, it takes guts to sit up straight when so many would prefer we slouch...

     
    21.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    SaDiablo, I hear that. Just when I think I've broken out of all boxes I look around and realized I just stepped out of one into another, like matryoshka dolls. The time is coming!

     
    22.
    SaDiablo

    'I'm a radical being either way, I don't really have to try on top of it."

    11th house sun opposing Uranus plus Moon and N. Node in Aquarius?  Damn straight, baybee!  You're going to provoke, just by being you. 

     
    23.
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    Dorothy

    Wow, what an incredibly interesting thread!  Self-acceptance is most definitely the most important thing you can have.  But I have to say, when you said it is "insane" to have a deep-seated need to rebel against your mother, ROFL, who dosen't?  

    The whole concept of femininity/masculinity, man, this thread could go on forever.  I went through all kinds of phases, wanting male attention/then getting too much of it and feeling frightened.  I have to go to work, but I want to gather my thoughts and post more later on.  Thanks for this great post!

     
    24.
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    Chez

    And talking about Being Yourself - it always bugs me how when people say "what do you want to be?" or "what are you?" they are referring to job occupations - we're not "a job" we do a job but we are Ourselves.  When they place us into the category of a "job role" it's so inhuman - like we're only born to perform a certain "role" in life - there's so much more - we are what we are as a person and what we choose out of life.

    Plus when it comes to fitting in with "specific groups" it's always completely baffles me, I just find all the "social rules" that people seem to have to follow with certain people just totally confusing, and totally unnecessary.  The moment many people realize there's even the slightest difference in how you look, how you speak (the uk has many totally different accents and dialects in different counties and towns/cities), or how you choose to live your life or generally what you like, suddenly you're "weird", not "one of them" (like they're all one person or something), and all the problems that come with this regarding the way they treat you (e.g. bullying from other kids/teens, and mocking or just generally ignoring from other adults).

    Why can't people just be themselves without having to follow stupid stereotype rules. 

    OK rant over  

     
    25.
    user

    That was very interesting to read re: disingenuous behavior based on looks.

    I never really realized what was going on in that world until I had a roommate who was extremely good looking. Then, people showed interest in me in a very superficial way in order to get information about my roommate because they wanted to date her.

    LOL, it was extremely transparent. I left that experience realizing that I would be pretty miserable in that situation, despite the perks. I don't want to deal with people who are scheming to get into my pants...

     
    26.
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    dina2

    Most of the time, I'm actually initially suspicious of attitudes girly. You're hugging me? You must want something. You want to be my friend? There's probably a motive.

    That's not to say I don't have women friends. I do. They're just less likely to fit the mold of the feminine female. They're laid back, down to earth. I can handle those types of females just fine.

    There's a lot of stuff that "girly" girls/women do that bothers the living piss out of me, such as:

    Talking really fast in a "giddy" way (eh mah gahd)

    Shrieking, freaking out

    Being dramatic (which actually makes no sense because with my Scorpio moon I'm just as guilty of stirring up drama as anyone) - but at least I try to be covert about it - ha!

    Being concerned about appearance to the point of annoyance

    etc. etc.

    However, there was one moment when my hormones were all wacky, I was at a Christening party and something made me cry, and it was really the wrong place but the tears just started flowing. I said, "I'm sorry... I'm pmsing" or some such, and all the ladies young and old kind of rallied around me in a quiet, supportive and understanding way, and that helped me love the world's females more than I ever did.

    PS: Oh, you asked about aspects: Sun, mercury, mars in Libra... all first house. Pluto in Libra. Moon Scorpio (suspicious). I don't know about the aspects... I'm not that advanced. :)

     
    27.
    Beth

    The popular image of what women are supposed to be like is a little...Stepfordish. I get very unhappy when I look at history and I think of all the ages and cultures where women were treated as property. There are far, far more of them than ones where women had freedom. Sure there were always women who were free, but on the whole, it doesn't look good. No wonder some people are afraid of being percieved as girlish.

    Kashmiri- I agree.

    There's so much I want to say here, really, but as I type it becomes increasingly convoluted and incoherent and it might not really answer your question.

    I do hope you resolve your problems though, or deal with your problems of gender expression in a creative way. I wish I could be more helpful ;p

     
    28.
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    Anonymous

    Thank you!

     
    29.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    Astrologically we are a lot alike and remarkably a can relate a lot with what you say, I even posted a tread a while back on an ADHD forum about it. I'm notoriously out of touch with stereotypically effeminate things. I thought was of the adhd-clumsiness  and my social awkwardness. I never thought it might have been astrology related. Things we share in common: mars in the first, aries MC, moon in the seventh (opposing mars in the first) and pluto in the fourth squares mars. I say the mars in the first which apparently is more favorable for men(traditionally considered to be) and the opposition on mars moon is key. Pluto is also in my fourth (house of cancer/moon/mom) and has hard aspects. I think these might be key factors. 

    Having mommy isseus is never a good thing for your sense of feminity imo and with the mars/moon/pluto triangle of trouble I think you and I both have plenty.

    The: "I will take a stab at this, but please note I'm still beginning ;) Mars is opposing your moon in 7th so there are projection issues abound. Perhaps due to hostility with the women in your family, you feel like you perceive this as a constant "attack" on you. Another interpretation for this - you're somewhat fighting with your inner "femininity." You associate "femininity" with the hostile women in your past. I get the feeling you desire to express this femininity but are constantly fighting with yourself - "I'm not like THEM!" so to say.."

    comment Lunalie made (thanks for the insight by the way Lunalie) holds true for me. I grew up having a love/hate relationship with both my mom, sister ( and  hate relationships with many cousins that I couldn't stand). Also throughout my life I've had many female friends but I've broken of almost all of those friendships. I've also always felt inadequate and in competition with most friends and other women I've come across. It's almost like I feel the need to be different then them. I'm also no sure why, help please anyone? 

     

     
    30.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    Reading your post more closely the resemblance in our experiences is uncanny. I too for the longest time thought I must have been gay and couldn't figure out why I was always attracted to men, I thought I was trapped in some weird  form of conscious denial and I also felt like a tomboy trapped in a feminine body.

    For me discovering I have ADHD and therefor being intrinsically different to everybody (not only women who I feel most rejected by) solved a bit of this mystery for me. As I am proggressing with therapy, I'm finding out that much of my self-esteem and body-awareness issues have a cause that is much more closely linked to the mother/daughter relationship and the expectations are put upon you as a child rather than it  being a gender or sexual preference issue (in my case at least). 

     

     
    31.
    LisLioness

    Hi, just got aorund to reading your post.  It's very interesting because I've had a similar struggle.

    Cancer Sun, of course, is supposed to be the traditional female American archetype...apple pie and Mom and home and all that.  You've got a direct challenge from Uranus in the Father archetype sign.

    I have Mars in Leo also, and I'll never forget a comment my aunt made about me and my dating life.  She couldn't understand why I was so "aggressive".  See, when I liked someone, I went after them.  She came from a generation that repressed that.  It was one of many comments I'd get about not being more female.

    I believe if one has Venus or the Moon aspecting Pluto, that person is well aware of the dark side of being female, and either wallows in it or rises above it (Pluto-Scorpio-the phoenix).  Being in a room full of women literally makes me suffocate, if they're the stereotypical negative female type--backstabbing, bitchy, catty, all that.  I have a Venus Pluto conjunction, and I'm hyper aware of the dark side of being female.  I don't want much to do with "typical" women and the "typical" games they play.  Most of my female friends had their Sun or Moon in Aquarius!

    I've solved my dilemma by realizing that if people don't accept me for who I am, then the hell with them.  Then again, I've had almost 40 years to work on my problem!

     

     
    32.
    Member Icon
    Chez

    Totally agree with you LisLioness, as someone who's experience a lot of crap from the "negative female" types over the years, and one who has moon/venus opposing pluto, I can't stand that type of female.  As a result I have stuck to making friends with only those who are the"quiet" types who are not "traditionally" female, who are not into the stereotypical female things like tarting themselves up, going on clothes shopping spreees, reading about and chatting about the latest celebs, bitching about others' looks, doing that annoying shrieking that many of them do, etc, but instead being friends with those who do not care about those things, who are more accepting as individuals and like a mix of things, and above all, those who are not likely to go bitching behind your back.

     
    33.
    LisLioness

    The strange thing is, I didn't have this problem in my family of origin.  But when I got engaged/married?  It came out locked and loaded!  There are two SILs, one husband's sister, the other his SIL, who scream these negative stereotypes, and both have had HUGE issues with me. Is this surprising?  Not for someone with a Venus Pluto conjunction!

    One is the embodiment of a typical bitchy female.  She is gossipy, catty, nasty, you name it, she is it.  She wanted me to join in on her game, but when I rejected the idea, she turned on me.

    The other one, well, that's more complicated.  This situation completely ties in with the dark, devouring female archetype of Venus Pluto.  Her husband developed a huge crush on me.  She ignored this for years, then all of a sudden, decided that she had enough and went ballistic.  She's a negative Cancer type (0 Cancer rising, Cancer Moon and Venus conjunct in the 1st house)--smothering, domineering, a nervous wreck.  I couldn't relate to either of these women, so of course, I had big problems.  It didn't help that their circle thought I was out to steal their husbands.  I wasn't!  I simply relate better to men than to women.  But with Venus Pluto, those women are NOT going to see or accept that.

    Like I said, it's not surprising to me that most of my female friends had significant Aquarius.  They didn't get muddled down with all this other crap.  We accepted each other for who we were, then got on with being friends.

    I'm not saying that the problem is all them; with that conjunction and a lot of fire, I'm giving off this "the heck with you and your crap" vibe.  My husband says I'm snobby, and giving off airs like this, he's probably right.  I've accepted that I'll never have a big circle of friends; I have to really dig around to find friends.  It's not easy, but when I find them, it's worth it.

     
    34.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    alphaxys, could it also be your Leo ascendant and Mars in Leo that makes you have such a strong masculine side?

    alphaxys, I do agree, our society is really superficial and shallow. I, like you, have a strong Uranus side, I HATE SUPERFICIAL CONVENTION! I HATE FAKE NICENESS!

     
    35.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    Also, my Cancer sister also has Moon in Aquarius.

    So she battles everyday whether to be the typical Cancer housewife or the rebellious individual of Moon in Aquarius.

     
    36.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    fajalobi78 -- I have ADHD too haha, as could be expected with all this uranus stuff i got goin on. i definitely relate to that.

    lislioness- I hear you, especially about the mars in leo bit. I have definitely been told that I am more aggressive than other women. why beat around the bush?

     toni- i think so. i go between playing it up and playing it down. i think i'm just too self-conscious. who has time for superficialities? it's a waste. says saturn.

     
    37.
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    jenfullmoon

    See, I have tons of feminine issues (Mars opposite Venus and both square Saturn). Not revolving around appearance because I can certainly dress girly (Venus in Taurus). And I do crafts. But that is ALL I do that is girly. As far as I can tell in this society being a woman is defined by loving to cook, loving to clean (or at least being obsessed with what a good housekeeper you should be), and wanting a family. I am a Taurus who hates to cook (yeah, irony), does not clean until the mess starts to irritate me, and don't want a family. Ergo, I have very little or nothing to say when most women (excluding my friends and even they hit the babymaking/cooking obsessions periodically in conversation) are in a group together and start talking. Like my relatives. Or my co-workers. I feel left out and like a freak ALL the time because I don't want what everyone else wants.

    I am on a mailing list with a bunch of very domestic women who fit this perfectly. I pretty much said last week "this is how a woman is defined in our society" and a bunch of them were kind of offended...then they went through the list and realized that yes, they DO do most of the cooking, the couple's social events, do the cleaning, wanted a family... Um, point taken. I am a failure as a female for not wanting these things. Even butchly-dressed chicks will fit in these days if they keep talking about their babies and their food processors in public, I suspect. Me being in female drag hasn't helped me fit in better. 

     
    38.
    Member Icon
    Cellibelle

    Pretty new at all this.  Have a 12 House Cancer friend so have thought a lot abt. their behaviour.  THis person isrofoundly sensitive and so perceptive at times and then so gruff and cool and in your face at others.  Chart isn't identical to yours, but was wondering, in a very simplistic way.....does the Mars on your Ascendant act as a cover for that marvelous array of planets in Cancer in the 12th that demand you hide, in every sense of the word.  Cancer is ruled by the Moon, the feminine.  Cancer is sooo private, and in the 12th, it's unimaginably private.   Elsa described it to me as "a womb in a womb".  To me, not surprising that your Cancerian feminity would want to hole up somewhere.  Great post.  Thanks for letting me take a stab at it.

     
    39.
    Member Icon
    Anonymous

    Cellibelle-- this could be part of it, definitely. i like to keep it under wraps until i am completely without a doubt comfortable. thanks!

     
    40.
    luci

    I don't think sexuality has anything to do with what the media says is sexual. I don't think it has to do with dresses and make up and dolls and girly things.

    I am incredibly in touch with my sexuality. I am confident, I am bold and I know my own body. I am shameless, I am passionate. I'm completely and totally feminine. And yet:

    I hardly ever wear make up and when I get out of bed in the morning, I roll over and throw the first thing I reach. I'd much rather have a powerful car than the latest designer purse. Give me a Surefire flashlight over a pair of shoes, any day of the week. Fuck wine - I'll have a Guinness. I'm a -firefighter- for fuck's sake.

    But don't ever call me "one of the boys" or "butch", because I'm just as much WOMAN as the next girl.

    Um...I feel like I repeat myself all the time with these planets, but I'm betting it's a Pisces Sun/Leo Moon/Pisces Venus/Mars Aries/Black Moon Scorpio that causes it. :D

     

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