This is fascinating because Saturn in Libra should address our relationship with conusmerism and the service industry.

But, let me put a twist on it, what are YOU as a CONSUMER doing to help improve the service industry?

Does the CONSUMER play a role in the decline of courtesy and down right unresponsiveness of the service industry?

I say they do. Can you see it?

Saturn in Libra says you should be able to.

I don't agree.  The customer is always right and if they are that nasty, then you get rid of them as a customer (boundary / limits).

I don't agree that the customer is always right. I don't think the customer that got burned by coffee is right to say she should get ..whatever ungodly amount she got. I don't think it is ok for a consumer to be mean to a salesperson or counter worker. And i do think that the consumer plays a role.

 It is a relationship and each party is accountable for the decline or rebuild of it. Yes, each party should have boundaries. As a consumer, if I'm not treated the way I feel i should I can take my business elsewhere. As a service employee, I can refuse service to someone who is being a jerk. But BOTH will be responsible for making service worthy again.

consumers are reponsible..I feel..in such manners as providing feedback to business owners both positive and negative. That is part of their accountablility. Consumers are responsible to not to attempt to take advantage of specials or offers from a business. Consumers are responsible to be forthright with payment....ALL OF THESE contribute to poor customer service in the service industry..not just shipping jobs overseas or low pay or inexperienced and inconsiderate workers.

The coffee lawsuit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants

i am an owner at a collectively run coffee shop

i turned around the profits of a struggling small business to one with 5X the original amount of money in the bank

the customer is rarely right

as an owner, i side with the worker

saturn in libra, i hope, is doing away with the notion that you can be a whiney, high maintenance ass who harasses service industry folks and repeatedly gets away with it

"take your money elsewhere" are possibly the most powerful 4 words in a capitalist language

personally as a customer, i understand that i have to learn to negotiate every business i frequent----different rules apply at different establishments

the worker is in charge

if i don't like the treatment, i either change my behavior or go elsewhere

workers have been abused far toooooo long under capitalism---pluto in cap will have something to say on this front

i pride myself on being a good customer and a no-nonsense worker

So what happens if your customer is unreasonable or extremely demanding/fussy but your employer expects you to kiss their butt anyway? To be pleasant no matter what for the sake of keeping customers happy?

Is this okay if it hurts your ability to serve your other customers?

i pride myself on being a good customer and a no-nonsense worker

thank you for explaining that so much better than I could

You made many of the points I was trying to.

and there are more..but the flash was quick and I didn't write them down :/

do you expect your realtor to drive you around to 900 different houses only to find out that you are not even qualified to buy ONE? People DO THIS! Realtors don't get paid by the hour. They only get paid when they make a sale. So the trend now is for a realtor to ask for a bank pre-approval letter before showing you anything and I don't blame them. Is it the realtors fault this had to be done? No..it was an ass of a consumer. I'd make the change too if someone expected me to work 10 hours with a car load of screaming kids for free.

that's just one example

it's not all one sided

ok..maybe not 900 houses..but still

blue rose, I've lost two jobs exactly for that reason. As an employee you have a right to draw boundaries. of course, your boss also has the right to fire you..

Is it ok?

I can't answer that..because it seems like a moral question that might have many layers. Is it ok to tell your boss and shove it on mere principal when you have 2 kids at home to feed?..no So..that's how that question can be sticky.

Personally, I'd rather be able look myself in the mirror than draw a paycheck and I just don't see someone talking to me like you are describing and me just sitting there. But this is me..not everyone and everyone has different tolerance levels. I say anytime you allow someone to treat you like a doormat..it's wrong whether you are getting paid for it or not.

Okay this is when my training comes in handy.  It does not matter who is right or wrong it is how you handle the situation.  

Yes, innocent workers have been abused "by the customer is right", but we also need to train people on how to deal with people who are abusive towards workers.  And if they are still nasty, tell them to get lost, kindly of course.

The customer service in companies have improved since the economy has dropped, to make themselves differ from other companies.  And studies has shown that if the customer service is done correctly and respectively then the consumer will respond in the same manner.

But then again there is always going to be that one person.

I have had a manager (who I knew had my back) talk to a guy who screamed at me. (He screamed so loud the whole room looked up.) I asked him, calmly, to keep his voice down and he just got louder and angrier. Lately this guy has only shouted at me once since then.

(Maybe that should be my strategy--get someone in management who doesn't kiss tush to have a word with the person.)

Yes Blue_Rose that situation is meant to be for a manager to deal with. No one should be treated like that. You go Blue_Rose!

And for my 100th post of the day: Lona you're wicked cool! 

Okay, let me rephrase.  My customer is always right.

Did I ever tell you the one about how I wrote a bad review on yelp cavalierly about a restaurant that averaged four stars (mine was only three stars) and the owner messaged me saying if there is anything we can do to help, please come in and we'll do what we can, and I felt uncomfortable, just because yelp is by the consumer for the consumer and I would feel uncomfortable anyway because my review was that the waiters were hitting on me or giving me weird attention when I dined alone and making me uncomfortable.  Being toured around by the owner would make me feel weirder.  And I know that, since partly the restaurant serves food that is part of a culture that regards a single female diner in a certain way, and because I am natively a pretty sheepish person that fawns from even just eager service, stuff has not and will not change.

So yes, I have been thinking about this.

And I think the entitlement and ignorance that a lot of consumers have about the service industry is beyond.  Remember that story Elsa told about Virgo about who is going to turn the can labels facing forward?  It's like, people can't imagine all those little things being set up already and all the work that is.

As a very, very long suffering member of the retail sales branch of customer service, working in two different states: I'm with Lona on this one. And as my SR is in Libra rx in my 6th house. I could write a novel on the crap I've seen, heard, and taken from everyone from my co-workers, to my customers. But I won't, I just want out. I don't like the unfair balance of power I've seen in the sales world since I started in it. It doesn't suit me, and I wish things were more evenly distributed. If someone is going to treat me like dirt, I should be able to talk to them like they're a halfwitted egomaniac, just like we would out on the street.

As in....I'm being nice to someone, I'd appreciate it if they didn't throw their merchandise in my general direction while talking to someone on a cell phone, and making shooing motions for me to step and fetch the rest of their things for them. Happened today actually. My response was cold silence because of the constraints of my sales script. What I would've liked to say, as her equal, not servant, but merely someone who is trying to serve her is "Could you please do me the courtesy of putting that person on hold, and talking to me like you would any other human being, not your chattel?"

Le sigh.....it's so hard to find good customers somedays....half joking/half serious as a heart attack.

I intend to title one of the chapters of my book on working in retail the above quote, and another called "You can't say that." I've got to have some fun when this is all done. ; )

Working in the hotel industry I have to say that every now and again the customer is just plain wrong. 

ie: booked the hotel room for the wrong dates (online, so it wasn't the fault of a reservation agent) and freaking out on us for a) not having a room on the day they did show up and/or b) charging a no-show fee.

Not often, but stuff like this does happen, and it's hard on the staff when the guest is a jerk about it.

i have the unique perspective of working in the service industry, but as a supplier.

i really only have to deal with customers if i'm standing there building a display and they get in my way (or ask a question.. same difference).  being serviceable is totally up to my prerogative.  when one of those sweet old ladies asks about caring for a gloxinia, i will explain every angle for 20 minutes (making her smile just for the conversation).  when some young stud wanders up confused and bewildered over how to "propery" appologize for whatever stupid thing he's done..  i make sure he get the nicest rose bouquet i have (while i check out his ass)...........

but when that randomly rude/crass/demanding sod aproaches..  i have the option to ignore them and walk away without repricusion.  i have actually had people come up to the display (as i'm cleaning/organizing/displaying) and say, "there's nothing better than this?  these flowers look like shit". 

now, the floral world breaks down into a grading system.  obviously, the higher the price, the better quality of flower..  if you wander into a grocery store, because it's on the way, and you need to bring something..  go ahead and fault your own cheapness for the lacking quality.  if you want pretty roses, you have to pay twice as much

so i guess what i'm saying is, that the service industry takes on way too much bullshit concerning customers who aren't willing to pay the true value for whatever product is being offfered.  everyone wants a deal...  you're not going to get it.  sorry. 

when the client is demanding and crude, yeah..  service will decline, no matter if they are right or retarded (<<solely used for alliteration purposes)\

which brings me to the food service industry...  just don't fuck with those bitches, they bring you your food..  and you really don't know what happens to it before it is set in front of you. (i've worked that angle too..  it ain't pretty)

nuf said

^^^yeah, once I told my boss "I bet she's never had a hamburger without spit on it" about a really difficult customer.  My boss didn't think people really did that.  I said yes, they do...I've had plenty of friends who worked fast food and they've seen some stuff.

Is this okay if it hurts your ability to serve your other customers?

This is where I usually draw the line.  I had a customer put a bunch of stuff up on the counter to be rung up when she had had to wait in a long line, and there were about seven people behind her.  I had a line from hell and no one to help because they were all busy too.  So I asked her if she could ring up front and apologized, and she stormed off.  Spoiled brat.

Then as I was waiting for a lady I called up to the prescription counter, a woman grabbed me to show her where something was located.  I excused myself quickly to lady number one, told her I'd be right back and brought lady number two the product before the first customer reached the front.  But then the grabby lady wanted me to show her where a list of stuff was...um, I'm not a personal shopper because you don't want to be bothered to look for yourself.  I told her I was in the middle of waiting on another client and I could help her when I finished.  She had to step between us to talk to me, how could she not know she had interrupted?

If I have a boss who subscribes to "the customer is always right" doctrine, he or she had better be giving me incentive and strokes up the wazoo to put up with the customer's bullshit. Too many times, the boss who subscribed to this was just as big a douche as the customers. And there I am in the middle, getting fucked sideways by both of them.

The power to say "no" to a customer is the greatest tool an employer can give an employee.

"getting fucked sideways by both of them"  

OOOWWWWWW...  totally been there (not in the literal sense)

i'm in a constant battle between going against the client with the "rules" of my job, and the client superceding my authority by going over my head and calling the head of the company.  the head of the company is (hot) a pushover, and will comply with whatever the client (corporate store mamangers) desire.  it pisses me off to be told to run the show one way, but then get contradicted by my superior two seconds later.

What I've learned regarding getting fucked sideways: I can't please two masters at once, it's not possible. So I try to make the customers happy, and if my managers don't like it, I put the customer between myself and them.

If I can't make the customers happy due to rules and regulations, I go get a manager to put in between myself and the disgruntled customer as they get paid more to deal with verbal abuse. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. ; )

@Josi - I agree, the 'customer is always right' motto has created unrealistic expectations and out of control consumers. As a consumer, I am very cordial in person and over the phone. I help clerks at the grocery store bag my groceries for example, why just stand there doing nothing? My arms aren't broken and there's usually a line.

In the 90s, I worked for a cellular company as an Escalation Administrator and handled the fire spitting customers wanting out of their contractual agreements, credits for self-induced astronomical charges, credits for 'mysterious' phone charges, billing disputes, rates plans that didn't exist, etc.

If complaints were legitimate or if extenuating circumstances were involved, I moved mountains to make the client happy. Other clients were reminded of their job, as the consumer, to read and understand the contract they signed. However, morale took a nosedive if a decision was overruled to placate an abusive customer, after enduring verbal abuse in standing firm, per company guidelines.

The verbal abuse took a mental toll, even with my strong personality. It's awful what consumers will say in the comfort of their homes. It's cruel, there's a human being on the other end.

@Brizo - ahh yes, so true. I witnessed this myself. If a person acted a fool, they did indeed receive some biological condiments or dirt. Folks may want to think twice about their mouth venom dining out.

I hope Saturn in Libra will balance the scales.

lol..I knew that ya'll were out there learning. I just knew it :)

Back in college, someone confided to me about their experience working for a fast food chain. If a customer was a royal you-know-what, the server might slip a little Visine in the food. The managers were ok with this.

I guess I'm ignorant - exactly what would Visine in food do?

sh*t that heinous - just googled it. Can cause coma, labored breathing and death. Geez!

I think Visine has been reformulated so that doesn't work anymore. My buddy who used to work at the bar at the local Hard Rock mentioned the trick, and also the reformulation thing.

I think the main thing is, we want to help our customers.  I know there are some service people who just pass a problem along, but we really try not to. It's bad business.

I know some are horrified at the disrespect here.  You would not believe what some of us have had to stand there and take.  Many of you wouldn't.  It isn't disrespect for most of our customers, it's meant for the jerks. Almost every day someone gets all jacked out of shape, snotty, rude or verbally abusive. And most times it's from a problem they've caused themselves.

Because if we caused the problem, we're trying very hard to make it right.  It's just good business.

Yes, well said brizo!

That's how I do my business in the service industry, and Saturn rx in Libra is merely helping me define where my job ends, and the customers begins. : )

Well, I am clearly from another era.  I worked in food/bar service for 10 years and never, ever saw someone spit in food, etc. or even joke about something like that. If anyone would have, we'd have all dumped them onto the sidewalk like a dog and further, been convinced they were insane or at least so disturbed that one would want to keep their distance. I am sorry but these are facts.

It could be that customers are ruder, society is ruder and if so, how do you like being part of it?

The concept that the customer is always right is very important as it offers a scenario where YOU are not always right. You are in the humble position of serving but now I think people are socialized to believe everything they do is right and justified as crazy (and off balance / Libra) as that is.

Cradle to grave, it's you, you, you, you and then people wonder why they are lonely.

I really don't think it is heroic to spit in someone's food. I think it's small and psycho and disgusting.  It's sub-human and I guarantee you, 30 years ago this kind of thing would have got you shunned and fired, probably within minutes.

Saturn in Libra lesson 935: You cannot allow another's behavior to dictate your own.

This is the lesson of our relationship with consumerism and everything else. The customer nor the service person is always right. That is unrealistic. What they are is human and each suffering in their own way. Each DO however have a common goal. The customer to get what they want and the service person to provide it. Keep that in mind and the situation changes. So, your service person today has had a bad day and they sound rude. Are you rude back? Or do you smile and say, I hope your day gets better. Are you polite when you request services or are you demanding? Do you have unrealistic expectations..on either side of this fence? Up to you to weigh that out whether customer of provider. And just because one person in that dynamic may be being an ass it doesn't give the other party license in that interaction to also be an ass.

Things have changed. We used to treat eachother with this type of respect and that is the decline. Not in just the service inductry, but within ourselves.

@Brizo - 'zactly!

Elsa - Yes, it's very disgusting, which is why I mentioned this. It's a reality. I was a teen working with other teens in fast food, in a small town. I didn't do it myself, too much Virgo.

I am absolutely, in no way allowed to engage with the customer in any sort of verbal dispute whatsoever.  

I'm fast and polite and on to the next.  They're spoiling, and I don't have time for a fight.  It's not worth losing my job, which I certainly would.

If I've done something inconvenient I tell the customer, and I apologize.  I find honesty is the best policy.  Usually admitting I made a mistake helps but sometimes I get chewed out and well...I deserve it.  They have every right to be angry and to vent.

What I'm talking about (the customer isn't always right) are people with power issues who are already seething with rage, and take it out on sales people, wait staff etc.  Dripping with disdain, and sarcasm, and enough four letter words to supply the navy.  Yelling at their spouse and kids in front of the entire pharmacy staff.  I don't like those people, I don't have to, they aren't right, and they're almost impossible to deal with.  Do I feel respect for them?  Hell no.  They don't deserve it. 

oh, about the spitting.  Did not, nor ever would myself.  Would not be a witness to it, because it's assault.  But I have heard about it, my daughter worked fast food and my other is still a server.  It's wrong, and disgusting, I agree.  Just putting it out there, it exists.  The way I was told was never, ever act like dumbass in a fast food place mom.  Because this is what happens....

"Cradle to grave, it's you, you, you, you and then people wonder why they are lonely."

Well said Elsa!

This is such a great topic for Saturn in Libra. I don't work in service industry - but to some extent we all do. I have certainly become more aware of HOSPITALITY as a serious job - I always tried to respect waiter, waitresses, etc, bc they are providing you with the most nurturing and basic service you need to survive: nourishment. It's just bad juju to go pissing off someone who is preparing your food.

But it wasn't till I saw a sign that said "Hospitality Is..." that I thought about how important it is, what a virtue, what a true skill it is to cultivate and how it doesn't come naturally, especialy when people are giving you attitude all day.

I hope it has changed for the better over the last couple of years for people working in direct customer service, but I'm afraid that I hear my friends complain the same amount about it. There are limits and there is responsibility on both ends - if you don't pay people living, respectable wages, it is easy to see that the business will close down and you won't have a coffee shop to go hang out in any more, a hardware store where people are willing to take the time to talk to you about how to get your project done right, or whatever else. I sincerely hope the practice of using customer service reps as therapeutic peons comes to an end under the Saturn in Libra transit. Just because you are at work doesn't mean you aren't still human. Hospitality and service are really valuable, and it is unfortunately only when you get shitty or no service at all that many recognize how important these virtues are!