I see lots and lots of spin.  is the world going to allow Honduras to uphold its own constitution?  when people say things about the time it was written, that it was a Reagan-era (suspect) document, I suspect not.  

minority support means next to nothing.  Mussolini had his supporters too. 

I see lots and lots of spin, too.  Here's another take: http://www.borev.net/2009/06/national_news_outlets_bring_th.html

It's day two of the Honduran coup, and the brand new military dictatorship is winning the hearts and minds of the people by, let's see... cutting off teevee feeds and electricity throughout the capital and putting an "indefinite" curfew in effect, for freedom! Thousands of Zelaya supporters are apparently dodging bullets in the streets, which is sort of like Twittering, for poor people. But the salient question remains: "WTF?" There was going to be a referendum, sure, but about what? For more insight we turn to the English language press corps, after the jump!

If the new regime had broad-based popular support, why would this be necessary?  If the nature of the president's illegal acts was so unambiguously heinous, why all the obfuscation about exactly WHAT he proposed (as outlined in the blog above)?

If you look at the petition

click "view signatures"

click on any number which will list about 50 at a time the them people are BEGGING for support in keeping Zelaya out.

The military did not take over....the military were used as an escort for Zelaya....Michelletti is not military....a coup is when the military take over and put in place a military figure.  Michelletti does not even want to run for office in the November elections, which are still going to happen.

Satori:  I understand what you're saying.  I really do.  I think Zelaya went off the deep end.  I thought he should have been arrested and prosecuted.  We disagree about the course of action the government ultimately took in this case, I know. But the notion that minority support means next to nothing (in a democracy?)  triggers such despair in me.  I don't know why.   The way I see it, dismissing Zelaya's supporters only forces them into the shadow, and that cannot be good.  Also, and forgive me, I haven't read Honduras' constitution..thanks Denamaria for providing some of that info here...is it spelled out in the constitution how to get rid of a President who violates the law?   Impeachment, etc.?  

I mean, Saddam Hussein was heinous, and even HE got a trial.  And the media was allowed to cover it.  There were no blackouts.  (There's my Libra, AND my Gemini!)

I know it is hard to understand and the way it is being played out is confusing, but if you know anything about this little country is that yes, they are very poor, but very very strong....they don't like being pushed around and they have gone down this route many a time and have come back every time.  It is a democratic country and for once the people....and this is a great lesson to the world, The People are saying, NO!, we will not have this.  This country has one of the strongest militaries and air force in Central America.(thanks to the US the last time Communism tried to gain control)...they can kick some ass!!  this country is standing by its constitution!  What this man was trying to do was ilegal and he was told to stop and he didn't ....the military by order of Congress went in and took him out and Congress put a person in to represent the people.

I don't know what is going to come of this, but I am very proud of Honduras for standing up.  The curfews were put in place to protect the citizens.  They were many threats from other sources of mayhem, bloodshed, the blackouts are a normal part of life in Honduras because the electrical companies are not the greatest.  I go to Honduras still to visit my family and everyday we would experience blackouts....the electricity goes off for half a day or all night...part of living down there.  That is propaganda......

Of course the US is going to back Chavez....we have a deal for oil from Venezuela and we can't jeopardize that...we need their oil.  Don't bite the hand that feeds you kind of thing.... 

Denamaria, I am proud of Hondurans too. Matter of fact, I will go fight with them if I have to, and die.

I mean, Saddam Hussein was heinous, and even HE got a trial.  And the media was allowed to cover it.  There were no blackouts.  (There's my Libra, AND my Gemini!) 

I'd say Saddam Hussein got a trial so the Media Could cover it. No one ever doubted the verdict. That was as much Media circus as Britney Spears ever was. Just bloodier. And there Were blackouts. If you want to talk trials and television and much vaunted openness . . Lets talk Guantanamo. How many of those trials are being televised? I don't know if its right or wrong, I just know I can't decide. 

I'm not sure about the situation in Honduras, all I've been able to read is what has been presented in this thread none of which comes from unbiased sources. And I have one friend's opinion - from Costa Rica.

One important point that I haven't heard anyone touch is - Elections can be bought. Referendums can be bought. Governments can be bought. With Chavez's oil money backing Zelaya how many ballot boxes do you need to buy? How many can you get for $6,000,000 in a country which all the media agrees is very very poor. This may have been the one chance they had to get rid of this guy, and if it was I can't say I'd blame'em.

Its hard to argue against a country trying to uphold its constitution, with an intrim leader who does not want to be elected, and a government which is seeking to continue with the electoral process as planned, without the guy who wanted to break with the constitution, was overthrown by a respected and presumeably well funded military (a well funded military rarely fights its government - Why screw with your pay structure? governmental chaos is not good for the national army - unless the army IS taking over the government which these guys don't seem to be doing. My friend from Costa Rica wasn't too sure about the coup, but she was very sure that Zelaya hadn't been good for his country.

Thank you for filling me in Denamaria.   It must be very hard.   I have been to Honduras but only briefly.  I suspect you and I come from different political spectrums---I lean left, and the Hondurans I stayed with when I visited also leaned left.  But it was funny, when I was there, they were quick to thumb their nose at me whenever they felt I was patronizing them!  We argued all the time, even though we were working for the same thing! Anyway, I've been reading and watching what's going on with great interest.  Which is another way of saying, I care about what's happening in this world, and in Honduras.  These days I worry all the time.  I hate the demonization of political opposites.  It doesn't get anything DONE.  Anyway, even though I seem to be in a minority here in terms of what I understand to have happened and what I think should happen next, you do open my eyes.   

Here is a clear articulation of the argument that Zelaya's actions were not illegal or unconstitutional, whereas those of the military actually were.

http://rebelreports.com/post/133319827/why-president-zelayas-actions-in-honduras-were-legal

"RebelReports is publishing this original article as a response to those who claim that the coup in Honduras was legal and/or constitutional and to the reporting by those media outlets that consistently repeat false characterizations of Honduran law and President Zelaya’s actions."

Dear Friends and Family, The small country of Honduras needs your urgent prayers today and tomorrow.

A horrible conspiracy is on the way (today and tomorrow) sponsored by Chavez and Nicaragua’s Ortega. The purpose is to destabilize the country by sending small groups of armed men linked to the drug traffic. They plan to take over the airport in Tegucigalpa (5 blocks away from my house), block the major highways and cause a massacre. The order has come from Venezuela’s Chavez guided by a Captain by the last name of Rodriguez. They plan to burn cars, destroy all means of communication and vandalize businesses, pushing the military to respond by force, thus creating a massacre. They have hired members of gangs to lead this revolt by paying them $300 to $500 each. Their mission is to resist the authorities and provoke them to shoot at them. Once the first shots are fired, the gangs will begin to shoot anyone who is in the middle of the revolts with the sole purpose of creating a massacre and destabilizing and provoking anarchy in the country.

It has been confirmed that in the states of Colon, Gracias a Dios and Olancho are armed cells that will intent to bring back Mr. Zelaya (deposed president) back into the country. In particular the area called La Mosquitia, because is an area which very little population, very little police and has been controlled by the drug cartels. A band that controls the drug traffic in that area is in charge of infiltrating him back in the country. In Colon they have confirmed groups of 100 armed men ready to move.

Yesterday Mr. Zelaya declared via international newspapers and TV that he was encouraging his followers to an insurrection. Very few countries responded denouncing this. The Christian (Catholic and Evangelical), Jewish and Muslim groups in Honduras have joined in fervent prayers asking the world to join them. Never has anyone seen such unity amongst these religions in Honduras. Please pray, and if you can, email your US congressmen and senators asking them to stand by Honduras.

What happened there was not a Coup. The Proof is in the fact that the military were following the orders of the Honduras’ Congress and the Supreme Court to remove Mr. Zelaya, and instead of remaining in control and in power, they relinquished their authority to Mr. Micheletti, head of congress. Mr. Michelletti, the interim president, has clearly stated that he is willing to step down any time as long as Mr. Zelaya submits to the courts of Honduras for breaking the laws. The Honduras’ congress is even willing to move the elections, which were to be held in November, to an earlier time.

Thank you for your help and prayers.

Cordy

Cordelia M. Baffic

http://www.elheraldo.hn/Ediciones/2009/07/16/Noticias/Conspiracion

The United States used to go help people like this.

My family and friends are scared to death of this man and his co-hort, Chavez.  In the first 4 days out of office, Mel Zelaya apparently charged more than $100,000.00 on the Honduran govt. credit for partying, clothes, jets, drugs......is this a man truly wanting to take care of his country? It took a minute for Honduras to cut all his credit, but he has Chavez' money backing him now.

check out his astrological chart.  September 20, 1952, Catacamas, Honduras at around 9:00 am.

my thoughts and prayers are with those in Honduras today, and those whose hearts are in Honduras today.

Look at the statues Zelaya had made of himself

No, I don't think this guy intends to step down.

He wants to be displayed along with  famous Presidents of Honduras from the 18th century.

::rolls eyes::

I sure hope this country snaps out of it and opts to support DEMOCRACY. If we don't who will?  

hmm Leo S Node conj midheaven

Public opinion seems to be turning on this, I am greatly relieved

wall street journal

From the article:

Let’s review some fundamental facts that cannot be disputed:

• The Supreme Court, by a 15-0 vote, found that Mr. Zelaya had acted illegally by proceeding with an unconstitutional “referendum,” and it ordered the Armed Forces to arrest him. The military executed the arrest order of the Supreme Court because it was the appropriate agency to do so under Honduran law.

• Eight of the 15 votes on the Supreme Court were cast by members of Mr. Zelaya’s own Liberal Party. Strange that the pro-Zelaya propagandists who talk about the rule of law forget to mention the unanimous Supreme Court decision with a majority from Mr. Zelaya’s own party. Thus, Mr. Zelaya’s arrest was at the instigation of Honduran’s constitutional and civilian authorities—not the military.

• The Honduran Congress voted overwhelmingly in support of removing Mr. Zelaya. The vote included a majority of members of Mr. Zelaya’s Liberal Party.

• Independent government and religious leaders and institutions—including the Supreme Electoral Tribunal, the Administrative Law Tribunal, the independent Human Rights Ombudsman, four-out-of-five political parties, the two major presidential candidates of the Liberal and National Parties, and Honduras’s Catholic Cardinal—all agreed that Mr. Zelaya had acted illegally.

• The constitution expressly states in Article 239 that any president who seeks to amend the constitution and extend his term is automatically disqualified and is no longer president. There is no express provision for an impeachment process in the Honduran constitution. But the Supreme Court’s unanimous decision affirmed that Mr. Zelaya was attempting to extend his term with his illegal referendum. Thus, at the time of his arrest he was no longer—as a matter of law, as far as the Supreme Court was concerned—president of Honduras.

• Days before his arrest, Mr. Zelaya had his chief of staff illegally withdraw millions of dollars in cash from the Central Bank of Honduras.

• A day or so before his arrest, Mr. Zelaya led a violent mob to overrun an Air Force base to seize referendum ballots that had been shipped into Honduras by Hugo Chávez’s Venezuelan government.

• I succeeded Mr. Zelaya under the Honduran constitution’s order of succession (our vice president had resigned before all of this began so that he could run for president). This is and has always been an entirely civilian government. The military was ordered by an entirely civilian Supreme Court to arrest Mr. Zelaya. His removal was ordered by an entirely civilian and elected Congress. To suggest that Mr. Zelaya was ousted by means of a military coup is demonstrably false.

I thought once that Pluto went out of Sadge that it would be easier to get the truth from the media but I guess I don't understand Pluto transits.

Jupiter rules publishing and it is in Aquarius conjunct NEPTUNE.

Obscure (Neptune) the truth (Jupiter) for social agenda (Aquarius) and this goes for ALL sides of course.

Anecdote is Virgo (discernment) but is also fallible.

aha that makes total sense thanks.

US cuts aid to Honduras in support of ex-leader

The Obama administration on Thursday cut off all aid to the Honduran government over the ouster of President Manuel Zelaya, making permanent a temporary suspension of U.S. assistance put in place after he was deposed in June.

The State Department made the announcement as Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was meeting with Zelaya. The action cuts more than $31 million in non-humanitarian assistance, including $11 million remaining in a more than a $200 million five-year assistance program run by the Millenium Challenge Corporation.

<snip>

Clinton made the decision even though she did not determine that Zelaya's ouster met the U.S. legal definition of a military coup d'etat. Such a finding would have forced the administration to cut off assistance and had been urged by some leading lawmakers, including Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

<snip>

Clinton did not make that finding because Zelaya's ouster involved "the participation of both the legislative and judicial branches of government as well as the military," Kelly said.

Ok. So if it is not a coup, then why are we cutting the aid?? How come nothing makes sense anymore? 

Here is the latest news....it is becoming apparent why the other countries, especially Costa Rica, which is baffling to everyone, stood by Mel Zelaya going back in knowing how corrupt and a drug lord he is....tomorrow there is a worldwide march against Hugo Chavez staying in power.

Regular Honduran Presidential elections are scheduled for November 29. Hondurans are hoping to have free elections and a new president. According to the constitution, President Micheletti is ineligible to ever hold the office of president again.

The EU has cut off over 90 million dollars in aid to Honduras. The US has cut off military aid and suspended diplomatic visas. All joint US/Honduran narco/military operations have been suspended. Labor unions across the planet have demanded that longshoremen refuse to unload Honduran fruit and coffee cargos. Between this and the US tourism warnings, the Honduran economy is taking a huge hit.

In spite of all of this punishment, Honduras is standing tall. Everyday that they do not cave into international pressure brings them one day closer to their Presidential elections.

Over and over Hondurans told me that they would rather have six months of hell, than a lifetime of communism.

In the two months since Manuel Zelaya was arrested, Daniel Ortega has declared that Nicaragua needs to change their constitution in order to extend his stay in power.  

Oscar Arias, the president of Costa Rica and the man that Hillary Clinton put in charge of mediations between Zelaya and the Micheletti administration came out last week with similar demands on the Costa Rican constitution.

There are lessons to be learned here and there are friendships that should not be forgotten.

Those of us who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. Those of us who do not pay accurate attention to the plight of our friends and neighbors may not fare much better.