As some of you may know, I moved to the apartment next door to the one I was living in.  I cleaned the old apartment as best as I could, but the kitchen tiles are the cheapest Pergo around.  One of them is chipped and needs to be replaced.  NOTHING will get them clean, short of blasting them with a sander. 

Today, the manager of the building told me the slumlord owner did a walk-through and wants me to go back and clean the apartment again.  Otherwise he will have a professional cleaner come in (about $100) and charge it to my deposit.

I don't think I should have to pay for this...the owner of the building is known by everyone to be very cheap.  The materials he picks for the building are so cheap, I would never be able to clean the apartment to his satisfaction without the use of professional cleaning supplies, which I don't own.

I looked up tenants' rights in the state of California and found this:

Q. What charges can a landlord deduct from the security deposit?

A. A landlord can charge a tenant for cleaning, unpaid rent, and damage to the rental unit beyond normal wear and tear. Tenants are required to leave the unit as clean as when they moved in. This includes carpets, drapes, miniblinds, ovens, etc.  If the unit was dirty when the tenant moved in they are under no obligation to leave it clean.  Tenants are required to pay for damage, but not normal wear and tear, to the unit occurring during their tenancy. Pre-existing damage cannot be charged to present tenants.  Normal wear and tear is the degradation of a unit that occurs through its regular use.  Examples of normal wear and tear could be: the natural discoloration of walls over time or as a result of poor air quality; the “matting” down or wear of pile of carpeting in high traffic areas (not dirt); warping doors or windows; minor chipping of paint or scratches on counters; and any other aging from normal use that results in depreciation of the property.

I'm wondering if I should fight it or drop the issue and just pay...thoughts?

Unless you took the prescient step of taking and saving pictures of the condition at the time you moved in I'd let it go. ....Kindof...

I WOULD take the step of pictures in your new unit. a set for you and give a set to the manager for your file. (that way he understands that you are more trouble than worth to jerk around).

I would also be tempted to consider telling the manager to go ahead and book the cleaner--but that first you want to walk through the old unit with him and take pictures of the present state. After the cleaner has finished you want to see/take pictures of the final state. This way (ahem) you can have a visual for what the difference is...Afterward, as you're dropping by the pictures of the new unit for the file might be a good time to remind him that your obligation is to clean the new unit to the specs when you moved in--minus wear and tear.  

i agree with CP all the way..  fighting with slum lords is more of a pain in the ass than anyone really has time or energy for.  (i've tried a number of times and only gotten headaches.)  if you signed a lease and will be in the new apartment next door, i would also say it probably best not to the rock the boat. 

but on top of that, ALWAYS TAKE PICTURES!!  go out and get yourself a disposible camera.  fill it up.  develop the roll and make two copies.  take one set and mail them to yourself.  DO NOT OPEN THE ENVELOPE AFTER IT HAS BEEN THROUGH THE MAIL.  (this is to ensure you have proof of when those pictures were taken as the sealed envelope will be dated with the postage stamp.. just in case.)  you can also use this documentation to show any improvements you may make to the unit (paint, repairs)..  because, if he's anything like the places i've lived..  there's no point in waiting, it's best to do it yourself. 

good luck!

You guys are awesome, thanks!  :)

I agree with the given advice. 

Back in our rental days, my husband and I always took "prior to move in" photos.  We showed them to the landlord, too, so they would know we had them.  I never thought to mail them to preserve a time stamp.

Well I texted my old neighbor, the girl who lived in this new apartment before me. As I suspected, Slumlord charges EVERYONE $100 to have the apartment professionally cleaned after the previous tenants leave. She was pissed because she scrubbed this place solid...I know, caz I saw her do it.

So...I don't think I'll be pulling a Cinderella in my old digs, thanks. I have other things to do...you know, like WORK, so I can pay RENT. Just send me the itemized copy of the invoice so I know how much you're taking out of my deposit, ya Tightwad Fucker.

Also, I heard stories from a few other folks who didn't get ANY of their deposit back, no matter how clean the place was and the photos they took. Basically, it's a given that that money is gone.

Wow...

FWIW I just took a walk through the old apartment. The bathroom and kitchen tiles are the whitest they're gonna get with my cleaning supplies.

I need a macro that just puts in:  What CP said!

LOL Shannon - me tooooo! :)

Yeah Jennifer, all the advice given here is great. I have learned the hard way too & I can't stress enough how important it is, when you move into a place, to take pics of EVERYTHING &, I don't know if you guys have "condition reports" over there? It's a list of everything & the state it is in, when you move in? You get a copy, the Landlord or Agent gets a copy. Anyway, I spend days going over that. No matter how small any damage or wear is, LIST IT!!!!!!!

Take pics of the stove top... the oven (if you can- it's tricky!) & everything in the bathroom. Kitchen & bathroom especially! Check window seals... behind doors, in cupboards... handles on everything... damage to walls, carpets or floor boards especially. You get my drift anyway... note EVERYTHING!!!

Good Luck... the drama never ends, eh?!

I had a Landlord make me go back to a property to remove the toilet freshener I had put in the toilet. Like WTF!! Some of them really are bastards.

Yea, I want the CP macro too!

btw, I'm sure the guy doesn't even bring in a fracking cleaner!  he probably knows the law inside and out and knows what he can get away with.

AND, just to be on the safe side, document the rest of the crap too so he can't come back on you for other things too - like are you paying for parking, additional charges for AC, cable, etc.  Not sure what's in your lease....

another thing, there are probably tenant's rights organizations in Cali that you could call for further info if you needed.

This type of situation is why (as a landlord) my leases always clearly called out how much of the deposit was nonrefundable *and* bolded/underlined the clause that explicitly stated that without 30 days prior written notice by either party the lease would roll into a month to month with 30 days written notice required for rent/tenant changes or for moving out.

It's true that there are a variety of "fixed costs" that accrue with any tenant turnover . But it's the responsibility of the landlord/owner to have a good measure of those costs. If part of that process is to recoup some of that cost from the departing tenant--it's a good landlord's responsiblity to communicate that upfront in writing.

This dude has a JD, so he's also a lawyer. You're right - he does know the ins and outs of his obligations, I'm sure...

We have street parking, don't pay for water or trash. That's in the rent. The only things I pay for besides rent are gas and electricity (and internet).

@McKenna - No, we don't have condition reports here. :P

I'm already moved into the new apartment and already put a few holes in the plaster...ugh.

@Jennifer... maybe you should write your own?

I'm a little paranoid about this stuff (just incase the fact slipped by you!) because I've had damage pinned on me that was already there when I moved in. I stupidly assumed that it was SO obvious, that I didn't need to bring it up, or point the fact out!

 It's happened a couple of times, so... you learn the hard way & it tends to stick!!

heh. CP macro...You guys are sooo invited to my b-day party...(if/when I ever have them again).

FWIW, I know that it is easy to rail on landlords and can be warranted f'shure (I've certainly done it myself)!!

But whooo-boy. You oughta hear the HORROR stories when two or more landlords get to chatting. 

For all the "slumlords" who ever cheated or compromised their perfectly nice tenants' safe, peaceful use of their rental unit...there are those who've learned via the police phoning that their house was gutted and turned into a grow operation...Or who've spent their evenings and weekends scrubbing and using a puttly knife to remove caked human feces from grout, tile and walls. Or spent hundreds of dollars and lost months of rental income hauling garbage to the dump and replacing carpet, curtains, appliances, etc.  It is freakin' brutal!

Ahem...none of which excuses your landlord's bad behavior, Jen...sorry...I just got swept away in some baaaad memories there for a moment. Mea culpa!

Yep most commercial landlords keep the deposit as a matter of course, on some pretext or other. But I once did when I let my own flat in London (we were working eslewhere) since the young couple really trashed a lot of stuff, inc most of my kitchen :(  They threatened to take me to court, though the damage was more expensive than the deposit would cover

I had one landlady 15yrs ago who had several places on her estate she rented out. I agreed to take on one where heavy rain was pouring into the cottage larder when I went to sort out some carpets a week before moving in. It was pouring through the electricity meters as well as soaking all the carpets! So I had to postpone my move for a month while everthing dried out but I got no rebate - I was moving from the city to the country so it was complicated. Later on I found that the night storage heaters were attached to my day meter, so I got an electricity bill for £450 for that winter quarter! I refused to pay it and arranged to move, so they kept my deposit - pure theft, and the agents I'd rented through were useless - she was the longterm client of course!

Wow...the stories!!! CP, based on what little I know of you on here, something tells me you're a fine landlord. You make a heckuva lotta sense on so many other topics. Me, I could never do it. :)

As for me, I pay my rent EARLY. I get paid twice a month...so as soon as I get that $, I write that check. Never EVER been late on rent.

As for the wear and tear on the apartment, it's minimal, considering I've lived there for 5 years. The walls are stained in certain areas, like over where the garbage can was, but they are white and the manager told me he will repaint them, does it after each old tenant leaves. Other than the nail holes in the plaster (which get spackled), that's it. Nothing major in any sense, not like these stories!

I am looking at a copy of my rental agreement...it doesn't say anything about estimated fixed costs. I think I will request a copy of the itemized cleaning bill for the old apartment, as well as an estimate of the fixed costs. I want to get a realistic sense of how much of my security deposit I'd get back - and how much cleaning is worth my time and energy. No sense in scrubbing my fingers raw if he's gonna call a professional in anyways.

@shannon "I need a macro that just puts in:  What CP said!" Ha, me too!

What rant said about mailing the envelope is a great idea too, I never thought of that.  

Ohhh. Please don't think I am pointing a finger your way, Jen. The owner is the one who needs to be diligent about understanding his cost-model and determining how/what he needs to operate profitably.

IMO, if his model includes estimating that he'll be keeping $100 from each deposit then he'd be better off in the long run writing that into his leases. It is more honest for one, and doesn't run as much risk of offending and pissing off good, pong-term multiple unit tenants such as yourself.

But, like any business, some players through laziness or intentional deceit find it simpler to hit out going tenants with a pre-imagined laundry list of deposit-nibblers. Most folks moving away are unable or disinclined to take the time and energy to make a fuss or stink. It's a sucky way to conduct one's affairs.

Oh no, CP. Sorry LOL. Didn't mean to come off huffy. I just was overwhelmed by emotion for a minute - outrage at the thought of you having to clean fecal matter, irritation at shitty landlords and equally shitty (pun intended) tenants.

I so agree, well said. :) I'm going to ask the manager for that estimated list tomorrow, as well as a copy of the cleaning service bill for my records.

Thing is, the manager is such a sweetheart. We talk about his family, food, I've met his parents. He's from Mexico, young, married, lives in the building. I've never seen, nor met, the owner of the building. He doesn't respond to my phone calls and gives the manager shit all the time. This is the 3rd manager in 5 years...

Thanks again, everybody! :)

This sort of thing is rife here too even with the original property report so I agree, photograph everything and write your own list of everything wrong down to the smalles crack.

Unfortunately, the not good landlords have tenants over a barrell because you challenge one and not many will lease to you again. However they are putting out the intent that they are happy to live in a world where everyone including themselves are unfairly ripped off....so good luck to them there with these changing times, not that i would wish something bad on anyone but hey you reep what you sow. So handle this in the way you would like the world to be....

just my opinion from this happening in october to me too

So I got a bill for $130 for cleaning the old apartment, along with a letter asking me to remit payment.  I was told that this was supposed to cost $100, then $80, not $130, and that it would be taken out of my deposit.  WTF.

Ugh.

Damn! I'm sorry. What happened with the deposit? (Sorry--not sure if I'm missing something).

ugh! I'm sorry. Unless you have something showing that you were told one of the lower figures, I'm guessing you have to pay it. :(

((hugs))

@Kashmiri - I moved next door from one apartment to another in the same building. The rent increased. Deposit is one month's rent. So I paid the difference between the two apartments. I was told the cleaning would be taken out of my deposit. Hope that makes sense!

At first, the estimate was approximately $100. Then it was lowered to $80. Now I got the bill - and I have to say, it looks mighty unprofessional...and it's $130.

I went into the old apartment and looked around. They painted the walls, replaced the blinds. That's about it. Anyways, I'm probably gonna have to suck it up and pay for it...just vexes me when bills like this show up out of nowhere. I'm on a tight budget and Mars in Virgo gets annoyed when things don't go according to The. Plan.

Eh, just ignore it if you can.