Alyssa Bustamante killed a 9 year old neighbor girl when she was 15 years old and then came home and wrote this in her journal:

""I just f------ killed someone. I strangled them and slit their throat and stabbed them now they're dead. I don't know how to feel atm. It was ahmazing. As soon as you get over the "ohmygawd I can't do this" feeling, it's pretty enjoyable. I'm kinda nervous and shaky though right now. Kay, I gotta go to church now...lol."

msnbc

What do you think? Do ya'll blame her mother (popular to do) or not? She is 18 now, going to trial. What do you think would be an appropriate punishment for her?

I see people like that as killer robots that need to be removed from society.

She needs to be locked up. Obviously.

People like this simply don't have the brain function to not hurt people.

I don't think anyone who could write that is redeemable, in practical terms (maybe by God). Something in her is broken, and no I wouldn't blame the mother, unless there's a very good reason (ie she was expressly taught not to have a conscience).

I think she should be held in a secure unit, a prison where she can be helped to make whatever she can of her life but where she can't harm anyone else; and I'm sure she will always be a danger.  I doubt that degree of amorality and dissociation from the consequences of one's own actions can be cured. The level of ethical awareness here would be shocking in 7yr old, let alone a 15yr old

I don't know what to think. I've previously talked about my experience working with at-risk youth and I like to think there may be hope for the girl after years and years of counselling. However I fear she was both old enough to have developed the understanding that this is wrong, and didn't, as well as now she has "tasted" what it's like. The only safe path is a long time in prison or death. Not something I like to say when it comes to kids, but there are some things in this world that are just evil and may not be redeemable in this lifetime. 

she obviously isn't right in the head.. 

doesn't seem like the mother had much to do with it..  if anything, she could be blamed for ignorance, but that really has no consequence.. a lot of parents are ignorant of their children in this day and age.  doesn't make it right, but it doesn't change the fact this girl is severely disturbed. 

psychological imbalance shouldn't be taken into consideration of leaniency

It's stories like this that scramble my brain. I try so hard to comprehend it. What was the purpose of being born in this life to do something like that? How can you blame anyone or anything? 15. I just can't wrap my head around it. I just really can't. And I still wonder, are some people just born monsters? I know we have freewill but...when does accountability come in to play? How much of it is circumstance? Is it best to just kill them off and let their soul be dealt with however it is dealt with or are they just going to come back and do it again?

See..I just can't grasp it. There is way too much for me to be able to understand at this point.

Her victim. And her victim's family..what was the purpose in their suffering?

I may never understand.

PS  I'd say she's more a full blown psychopath than a sociopath! A sociopath is usually more cunning, and would have the self-awareness to hide the journal (or not even write that stuff)

I wonder how much of her life she's spent online...  just the language she uses sounds so 'teenage Facebook' or something... I can't quite put my finger on it or articulate it, but there's something so 'at one remove' about what she wrote, it's as if she thinks she's a character in a cartoon or video

Did anyone else get that sensation?

I don't think the ripples of an action are ours to truly comprehend. 

Maybe not Erradin. But, I truly wish I could.

i agree with you BP .. i don't think she has a proper understanding of reality.  and in that sense (if she had spent most of her intelectually formative years developing in relation to a computerized world) her mother could be blamef for neglect...  but then again, if that were true, the entire facebook generation would be wielding hatchets. 

Yeah, I wasn't thinking when I titled this. Sorry.

The child has no empathy. I am not certain why. But she knew right from wrong. She knew that murder was wrong. We had a thrill killing by two teen boys in our area. They killed a teen girl for the thrill of it. They bragged about it on a video camera. They were all pumped up after the murder as if they had just finished a great video game or some athletic competition.  This is a very disturbing trend. Whether or not the mother of the girl was a terrible mother, the girl has to be held accountable for her actions. In general, I am very much against trying underage teens as adults, but, in this situation, it may be appropriate, if the sentence involved time in a high security psychiatric hospital. The girl already knew right from wrong. What she lacked was any empathy.

Here is an article on empathy:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maia-szalavitz/missing-empathy_b_38784.html

I don't know enough about the case or the girl's history to know if her parents have any responsibility in the matter.   I do think that when you commit such an act at such an age, something is broke and their ain't no fixing it.  

As for punishment, she's not able to comprehend a punishment---  That would imply she has some morals and sense of right and wrong.

For society's sake she should be incarcerated for the rest of her days.

Aren't there people who are just as evil (lack empathy, are cruel) but not as stupid? If she was smarter she wouldn't have committed a crime that would keep her locked up forever.

This is disturbing, no doubt, but I shudder at the thought of people who are built like her, except smart enough to do their damage and stay under the radar.

I do believe she's got a chip missing and no amount of parenting or counseling would help it, except teach her how to be manipulative and cunning.

To bring up a D&D comparison some people are Lawful Evil, others just Chaotic Evil. 

kermiieeee!

The part where she wrote "as soon as you get over the...feeling" makes it clear that she knew what she was doing and knew it was not acceptable. Your conscience is something you are NOT supposed to get over and ignore. And she headed to church or joked about it - all she knows if you're supposed to act one way in public for show and then do what you want.

I do blame a little bit the people around her who tried to set boundaries and instill a conscience (evidenced by the above line she knew she crossed) and failed. This would have been obvious by a young age. She is one of those people who do not have a conscience, know it exists, and deliberately goes against it. Vile, vile, vile.

Of course, I think that if a person at that age doesn't have stay in bounds, they will never be able to. I believe in rehabilitation for smaller crimes, not this - age is not an issue when they know what they are doing and kill someone with glee.

On the one hand, a 15-year-old's brain is not fully developed at that age. However, I don't have high hopes for her development in this particular case.

My father spent his career in juvenile justice and focuses on rehabilitating youth, but I don't believe that psychopaths (and that's what she is, IMO) can be rehabilitated. Life in prison, no parole.

She's very sick and should be locked up for life.

I get the feeling she is conflicted but only on a superficial mental level. Its like she can feel the 'shakiness' of the realization that what she did was unethical, and its not a feeling she enjoys (ie; she didnt kill for the thrill of it being taboo), but the enjoyable part was the act itself. 

Some people think their emotions so they arent really feeling them. There are probably a number of factors involved, lack of appropriate parenting or at least a lack of recognition of her potential for this could be one, but then again it may have been hidden and only manifested itself during the act.

The degredation of ethical norms and boundaries in society at large is probably contributing something too; kids these days, depending on what theyre exposed to, are at risk of being desensitized enough to make something like this possible given other contributing factors. Look at the show Dexter, the hero is a serial killer, and even though he only kills other killers that detail can easily be lost on someone with sociopathic tendencies to the degree that this girl obviously has.

Also think its possible she is or was possessed by a tramp soul, as Yogananda calls them. I had this happen to me at one stage when i was doing a lot of drugs. It felt like i was myself but doing all sorts of uncharacertistic things that i would never normally do. It was only later through the help of a spiritual collective that i got help and they got this thing off of me. I saw a vision of it in my spiritual eye and it was hideous. In that state of mind youre basically on auto pilot and are a puppet for a sinister force, but you dont even know about it consciously. This might have been the case here too.

In my honest opinion, I think she's a monster. Some people are born monsters and no, I don't blame the parents one bit! Either put her on the death penalty or lock her up. These kind of people are scary!

 when I think about the safety of my precious little boy it scares the hell out of me to know there are people like that out in the world.

I think she wanted to be caught. 

Which sets up all sorts of interesting questions about whether an instinctive, unconsious yet profound sense of responsibility can possibly exist, buried deep in a murderous psyche such as this.

Writing what she did in her journal, her immediate chilling description of the killing, was not a part of the above process. 

But, leaving that journal to be found as evidence was.

By doing that second thing, I think she was saying.......... "Here is your proof.  You better take me out.  Because I like this.  And it will happen again."

I think she was saying this is bigger than me (which it was/is) and I am not in control. 

Which is complex, complicated and confusing.

Noon Chart

Holy crap !

I think I would die of embarassment if my kid were to carry out something so heinous. She's clearly not fit to live among people, and I doubt her parents had much to do with how she turned out. Who brings their kids up to create suffering in the world ?

Saturn Pluto Moon T square.  Cold.  Ruthless.  Feelings.  

Moon in Leo.  I'll do my thing my way for me because I'm like that. 

Pluto in Scorpio on Desc.  Intense intimacies - even unto death.

Mercury square Pluto.  I will write about it in my journal. 

Yeah, I was looking at Mars/Uranus/Neptune too.

Indeed. 

Mars/Uranus/Neptune in Cap, holy cow. Control! - and delusions of power; that's what jumped out at me too.

And yes those T-squares are chilling. A very disturbing chart - you'd need a lot of self-awareness to survive those placements and learn to control the impulses they would likely promt.

Good point Bridie about wanting to be caught - but we don't know yet why she was arrested and how well the journal was hidden. Or do we? - I haven't read up on the case. Given the Cap stellium maybe she felt they'd never catch her!

ETA  We don't have a birth time do we? So it's not clear how close this chart is to the real thing. I doubt she has a Taurus Asc irl, I'd guess Scorp or Sag, or Aries, or even Aqua!

On her trial date, May 16, 2012.Tr. Saturn will have just rx over her vertex. Mars will conjunct Chiron while tr. Pluto trines. Tr. Sun/Jupiter will oppose her Pluto. Mercury will oppose her Jupiter.

This is a noon chart, we can't be sure. But that makes compelling reading Josi!

I bet we hear from her mother. That Merc is conj BML and Ceres as it opposes her Jupiter.

I'm not thinking Taurus Asc either. I'm thinking Leo putting that Saturn in the 8th possibly conj her DSC (with Merc) and Moon conj Asc. Making Aqua in her 7th with Cap stellium in 6th. But, I'm speculating here. Her face sort of looks like a moon 1st house.

That also puts Pluto on her IC

Good deduction, Josi! Very persuasive.

Newbie question here..

Is all that Aquarius in her chart what allows her to remain so detached?

Possibly! More to the point, there are no positive/supportive aspects to her 4-planet Aqua stellium...

And I know from my own bitter personal experience that people with their 'emotional' planets ie Moona /Venus and aslo Sun in a combo of Leo and Aqua tend to be extremely self-centred. I've been involved with two men who have this combo

Thanks BP :)

In fact her Mars is in Aqua, but the Uranus/Neptune in Cap is bad enough on its own...

really tragic. I don't know the story of her life thus far so I don't know what could cause this behavior but it's usually mental illness and she needs to be stopped and for the rest of her life! Stunning, just stunning!