luci

So, I'm having a hard time accepting a friendship between my SO and another woman. Still. I may have talked about it here before, but it's getting worse.

I don't know what details to tell without turning this into a major rant session, except to ask:

Is there's ever a point where interaction is inappropriate between a man and a woman that is not his significant other (even if no cheating is suspected)? 

I mean, DO I suspect cheating? I don't know. I do know I've been cheated on before and my gut instincts on this issue are not to be trusted, themselves, because of other people hurting me. He has cheated before. I was around when he did it. I saw all his tricks, though other people tell me they were shocked to hear he'd done it and he swears it was the ONLY time he's ever. I guess it's making me nervous, if I'm completely honest.

So...anyway. Story:  

This woman and her boyfriend were friends with my man, and he became almost obsessive about them. "So-and-so said..." "I'm doing X with so-and-so..." "so-and-so are doing Y...", to the point I was tired of hearing about it. To the point it was almost exclusively all he talked about. 

I work first shift - he works second. Three out of four days he works with her. He and she would spend time alone on their days off/during the day, find excuses to get their kids together, the whole nine...it's safe to say it made me twitchy to begin with.

Every time I mentioned being uncomfortable with it, he'd tell me I was being ridiculous. He'd get angry, upset I wasn't trusting him. We'd get heated about it, once or twice, but I never told him to STOP hanging out with them/her because I know what happens when you tell a Gemini what to do. It ain't pretty. 

Now, so-and-so the couple have broken up and it's pretty messy. My SO's been on the phone with her constantly, over her house, doing stuff with her, helping her move...all in the name of "trying to help her out because she's his friend". They're spending a lot of time together. He tells me I'm "selfish" because I dislike it and I'm not sympathetic toward her plight, which I may very well be - but emotions aren't logical. I'm not proud of it, but..hey, I'm a Pisces and I'm Human.

But when we were aruging it over on the phone, he called me her name. :/ Oops?

 So, again: 

Is there's ever a point where interaction is inappropriate between a man and a woman that is not his significant other (even if no cheating is suspected) or am I an unreasonable, jealous monster?

Bananas

Aren't you making plans to leave him anyway?

If so... isn't this just fueling your fire?

Shouldn't he be helping the GUY move, too?

Why aren't you involved with this couple? Do you get invited to hang out with them also (I mean before this happened)?

And in response to:

but I never told him to STOP hanging out with them/her because I know what happens when you tell a Gemini what to do. It ain't pretty. 

I have not had this experience with Geminis; in fact, quite the opposite. So I don't think it's the Gemini. I think it's just the guy.

luci

Aren't you making plans to leave him anyway?

I'm saving money toward that end yes. Trying to prepare myself emotionally for it, in the process. Doesn't mean I'd be okay with being disrespected while we're still in a relationship.

They're much younger than we are. Early 20's. They go out and drink a lot, which is not my bag at all. So he goes with them without me. Anyone remember when I had an issue with him going to the bar alone with two chicks? This was her and her best friend. 

Or, like I said, they all work second shift and I work first - he hangs out with them/her during they day when I can't be around. 

It's just odd: they live in an apartment complex that has a pool. He knows I LOVE to swim. Yet frequently this summer when I'd call him before I left for work, he'd tell me he wouldn't be home when I got there because he and his daughter were going to their house to go swimming.

Um...why not plan it so that I can go with you guys? He never did have a response to that other than "just doesn't' work out that way".  

Bananas

Well, you could disengage mentally. I mean, if you really do plan on leaving, let him chase after this nutty broad and go fish for something more interesting yourself.

luci

I'm a PISCES. I can't disengage mentally until I'm over it. *lol* I'll be walking out the door and still forcing myself to try to disengage. I'll be two weeks out and still going "DISENGAGE! DISENGAGE!"

Ain't that easy! 

 

Elsa keeps telling me to make my anger work for me - to use it. But...man, it's hard to focus on sometimes.  

Bananas

Well, here's what you can do, straight from the Scorpio moon bag of tricks. Make the meanest, baddest mix CD you can. Head straight for the gym, stepper, jogging trail or whatever you do. Have fun fantasizing all kinds of depraved revenge scenarios. Sweat it out, pound it out.

When you're done, take a big cleansing breath, drink some water. Pee out the rest of your angst, then focus on something else that's productive! Also: find yourself a lust man to occupy your free thoughts. Strike up a "friendship" with another guy. Then see how much you care when ole Shit-for-Brains goes chasing after his friend's Sloppy Seconds Used Up Wife.

Bananas

PS: UGGHH, the drinking thing really burns my brisket.

Yeah, I used to go out and drink. I'm 37 and over it now. If I'm going to drink, it'll be 2 or 3 beers tops. I certainly am not going to go around bragging about how wasted I was or how beer is the greatest thing on the planet. 

I hate that drinking gives people an excuse to act like immature idiots. "I'm going to go raid the bar area..."

Right, so you can get a good buzz going and then make goo-goo eyes at my man when you think I'm not looking. 

notatirem

Every time you post anything regarding Mr. Gemini I wonder why you havn't stabbed him yet.  He sounds like a grade A prick. You could do better.

SaDiablo

Going to be rather blunt and merciless, so prepare yourself....

"Is there's ever a point where interaction is inappropriate between a man and a woman that is not his significant other (even if no cheating is suspected)?"

Yes.  Whenever the SO is uncomfortable with it.

"Every time I mentioned being uncomfortable with it, he'd tell me I was being ridiculous. He'd get angry, upset I wasn't trusting him."

Well, hm... every three words when you're together is about this woman, whom he hangs out with instead of spending time with you when you ask him to and he calls you by her name.  Yeah, I'm sorry, you're being really fucking ridiculous!  *eyeroll*

I'd be out that door so fast it'd make his head spin.  Hell, even if it meant sleeping in my car, I'd do it instead of spending another day with this man who doesn't seem to care about you at all.  You're being disrespected and he's got you to the point that you're questioning whether that's how it should be because, after all, you're irrational, right?
Been there, baby.  Recently.  Curb-kick this selfish motherfucker.  There's better men out there that aren't going to pull this kind of crap on you, ones that actually want to spend time with you and are willing to give your emotional needs some consideration.  This boy-man doesn't deserve your time.

Lunalie

Luci:

Having a Pisces mother and a lot of very close Pisces friends (including a double Pisces), I can see why you try and persevere in relationships like this. Pisceans like to merge with their partners, and it's especially rough when you have this desire and yet the trust is not there. And yet, Pisces wants to keep persevering, in hopes that things will get better.

Well, from what I'm gathering from your post it seems like your trust in Mr. Gemini has dwindled. What is a relationship without trust? And he has no consideration whatsoever as to how YOU feel about all this!

Well, honey, the trust is gone. I think you know the answer to your problem. It's just a matter of doing it.  

Bananas

Well, you said in the other thread that you were embarking on a mega fitness program, so I would pour my full attention into that and just ignore the motherfucker. You want to be looking and feeling your best, most ass-kickingest when you curb-kick this bitch, as SaDiablo so aptly described it.

Crackers

Luci, this post overwhelms me for some reason .  I'm a Pisces Sun/Pisces Mars.  I love to merge too, but this situation is just not "merge worthy".  

Visualize yourself merging into a wonderful new independence.  Maybe visualize your new living place?  Decorate it in your head.  I dunno - you'll know what to see.  (Obviously, I'm someone who does a lot of visualization !)  Anyway, I say escape now in your head. I know you have a rich fantasy life.

 In my relationship (with a Scorpio), we have very strong boundaries.  Nobody gets near us, we don't mess around with people of the opposite sex - at all - including as "friends". We're very protective of each other's feelings of vulnerability. Our intensity wouldn't suit a lot of people.

So I can't speak to this relationship with a Gemini.  It would wig me out beyond belief.  I'm only chiming in to suggest disengagement tactics. But I've read all your posts about this relationship all along, and I want you to be happy - the sooner the better!

 

Elsa

50 Ways To Leave Your Lover

Dorothy

Trust your instincts Luci - unfortunately my instincts tell me he is definitely involved with this woman.  It sucks, and I am sorry you are dealing with this shit.  But you really should focus on taking care of yourself, and as hard as it is, just walking away as soon as you can.  You know you deserve more than this.........  Really sorry this is happening, but I know many, many of us here can relate, it that is any consolation.

goddess

"Every time you post anything regarding Mr. Gemini I wonder why you havn't stabbed him yet. "

Hahahahahaaaa! Notatirem, you never fail to crack me up.

Luci, not sure what you're looking for. Permission to be pissed?  Reassurance you're not being a shrew? Validation that feeling second fiddle to some other chick is objectionable?

Consider yourself validated. I'm seen extracurricular activities develop in very similar circumstances more than once.

On the plus side, if you're hoping to end it, sounds like he's got a foot out the door already...

Anonymous

Luci something I ask myself (and my friends too) when I'm in a tight/bad/weird/fucked-up whatever spot:

"What's in this for me?"

 

satori

to elaborate my take on kash's insight:  it's painful for me but I have to ask myself, "where is my payoff," as in, if I'm still in it I'm definitely getting something out of it, something perhaps even subconscious such as a wish for self-destruction.  

Jessica

((((Luci)))))  Do you need money to leave this guy?  If so, I will start a collection and y'all can PayPal me at jjpete@hotmail.com.  Seriously, I bet you'd do it for any of us.  Or can you just make a new plan, Stan and jump out the back, Jack?  It really can be that simple.

Also, as nice as it is to talk about concentrating energy elsewhere, I don't think you ARE going to feel better about yourself until you cut him loose.  And when I need to feel really, really better about some guy who wronged me, there is only ONE THING that will do, self-actualizing or not--  get dressed up SMOKIN' hot and immediately run out to receive the ADMIRATION OF OTHER, MORE APPRECIATIVE, MEN.

 

 

 

notatirem

You said that you have already decided its not working out but you are waiting till you save enough money to end it...

"I'm saving money toward that end yes. Trying to prepare myself emotionally for it, in the process. Doesn't mean I'd be okay with being disrespected while we're still in a relationship."

It sounds to me like you are expecting him to serve effectively during his lame duck period.  Thats unreasonable.  If its mentally over, than let it be over instead of continuing to allow yourself to be hurt by your situation not conforming to the standards of a healthy relationship. Expecting him to behave like a good boyfriend at this point is neurotic.

Jessica

It sounds to me like you are expecting him to serve effectively during his lame duck period.

hahahaha, notatirem, you kill me!

notatirem

If your kisses won't hold the man you love, then your tears won't bring him back.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koELWiGgspc

 

Every time that I hear a woman cry 'cos her man has left her flat
I just feel like saying, "don't be such a fool, you fool."
Better dry your eyes, can't you realize
You gain nothing by that
Well, that's no way to keep his heart warm, baby,
When his love grows cool

What's the use in sighing?
What's the use in crying?
If he's wandered off the track
'Cos if your kisses won't hold the man you love
Then your tears won't bring him back, no

You might as well be cheerful
There's no use being tearful
If he's given you the sack
'Cos if your kisses won't hold the man you love
Then your tears won't bring him back

Now, listen
If sweet sugar kissin' isn't gonna make him come home
Tell me, how do ya hope to keep him to ya
With tears instead of song

Just be a normal fella
Come on, say "What the hell-a"
Get his clothes and help him to pack
'Cos if your kisses won't hold the man you love
Then your tears won't bring him back

Love is like home cooking: good, and wholesome
But all men need some mutton on the outside now and then
If you find your boy is cheating,
Do the same, old dear
He's only giving you the chance that you've been waiting for for years
My goodness! Tears won't get you anything
Just a shiny red nose
Go on, paint up, powder up, put on your swellest clothes
Men: go and get 'em by the score
Neglected girls shouldn't worry
That's what God made sailors for!

Don't cry for him or chase him
Just go out and replace him
With some good looking Tom, Dick or Jack
'Cos if your kisses won't hold the man you love
Then your tears won't bring him back

If your kisses won't hold
The man you love
Then your tears won't bring him back!

 

Liz

notatirem ..you're rockin it!

I agree with all of the advice so far. Also my friend was with a gemini/cancer and kept pulling this BS with her. Gave her nothing of his caring side - gives it to his ex who he's still "friends" with and to his dog. After a year of lies and BS she's finally ready to leave. And she's an aries - although capricorn rising and saturn in cancer - so has a really caring heart. But he's giving it all to his ex in the guise of that gemini BS of "friends". So what if he is or is not actually cheating.. it's BS because he's not tapping into you.

I merge too as a 12th house libra with jupiter in pisces.. and find that i can't merge with the air signs too well.. esp gemini.. because they talk crack. Miss having a pisces in my life who then has a bit of air in them. Merge but a bit detached so I can take them to a party or to meet my friends. 

Get the book "He's just not that into you". Helped me with figuring things out.. ESP about the guy's perspective of what it's like when they ARE into a girl. How they show up because they fear another guy will get her etc etc. They show up because they want to share their thoughts with her and they show up because they love the feeling they have with her. Even my ex said something similar - when we were supposed to be friends (and he was a pisces) that he enjoyed feeling this rush of adrenaline/macho feelings when with me. Problem for me though lol is I don't want a friend who starts merging with me .. that's a lover to me.

Anyway good luck with the current situation. And merge with anything but this situation. Tell him you don't want to hear about them .. at least until he can tap into your needs equally.  Geeze saturn in libra.. time for him to get a grip.

Ro

Hmm, I read this thread before I went to work.  Now that I've got some time (and a nice glass of red wine) I feel like I had add a little input to your situation.

First off, it's sad.  He is clearly into her.  Made even more apparent by the fact that he gets so wickedly upset when you begin to tell him how it makes you uncomfortable.  When someone truly cares about you, they will do whatever they can to make you comfortable EVEN IF it makes them UNcomfortable.  Really.  Think about it... Sure, he might want to be there for this woman "just as friends," but if he truly valued his relationship with you, he would quit talking to her.  Even it made him uncomfortable.  I have been "the other woman" in this situation before, he never told me he had to quit talking to me because it made his girlfriend-turned fiancee-turned wife uncomfortable.  Instead, it took several weeks of arguing between between the girl and myself to get this figured out.  Then I just quit talking to him because I realized that he doesn't respect the value of a relationship in general, and there's no way in hell I want to be with a guy like that.

 

I personally think you've already prepared yourself emotionally for this leaving to take place.  You just don't want to face it, but instead would rather just hope that maybe, just maybe he will come around and see the light.  But his eyes are opened alright... Towards her.  You need to take your selfless love to someone who appreciates it.  Don't sit there and devote your good emotion to someone who will not give you the same in return.  It is hard.  I can identify, I have a 12th house (Sagittarius) Sun... I know that sometimes we just like to "dwell in the wreckage" so to speak that somewhere in there we will find a treasure... But sometimes the treasure is getting out of the wreck, and moving on.  

 

Baby steps, sure.  But start walking.  This guy's a jerk and doesn't deserve the love you're willing to give.  You can do it :) 

Bananas

RE: The love you're willing to give.

Luci, here's something to consider. Do YOU even love HIM?

Do you?

WHAT do you love about him?

Seems to me he annoys the shit out of you for an awful lot of the time.

LisLioness

Luci, here's an old crow's take on this.  I put up with a lot of shit that I shouldn't have, just to have the illusion of a relationship.  I was much younger, of course, and more forgiving.  I don't have any Pisces, but I have a 7th house Neptune.

Now that I'm closing in on 40, I believe life is too short to put up with any shit from any man.  I know you have financial ties to this fucker, but seriously, I'd even move back in with my parents to get away from someone like that.

And the minute he whined about me saying "something isn't right here", I'd kick him in the balls.  I'd probably even throw HIM out if I was in the mood.

Again, life is too short to waste on numbskulls like him.

goddess

" When someone truly cares about you, they will do whatever they can to make you comfortable EVEN IF it makes them UNcomfortable."

Yeah, this bothers me about a lot of the situations I see people talking about. If something upsets my partner, I do my best to pay attention, even if I don't think it's a "big deal" personally.

Because my partner IS a big deal to me. How he feels IS a big deal to me. How I feel is a big deal to him, whether or not we see the situation the same. Our relationship with each other is primary. While we don't seek to cut others out of the loop without cause, if there is another party that disrupts the relationship, it's a threat to both of us because we both value the relationship with each other above outside connections.

Ro

Exactly, Goddess.  Haha are you agreeing with my statement, or not?  I'm kind of confused.  

 

But what I'm saying is I've had to make myself uncomfortable a few times and do a few things I may have not done if I were single for the sake of my relationship.  Because it mattered, and the guy mattered.  And I wanted it to work.  That's just how it should work, in my opinion. :)

mimi mottet

Relationships are so complicated, heart wrenching and traumatic it's a wonder any of us even go there. I have lots to say over friendship type relationships between men and women. They say that having an emotional relationship is considered cheating. So if you're friends, and friend is having emotional issues and talks to you about it, it's cheating. For God's sake, what the hell are friends suppose to do? Walk around talk about the weather? Are we suppose to go thru life and only have friends from XYZ groups so as not to rock the boat? And if all the rules of proper social interaction are broken, well you have a two timing jerk on your hands.

We might as well wear HazMat suits the rest of our fucking life if all these damn rules and regulations of proper social interaction between men and women are broken. How about bringing back ball and chains so we can let everyone know this one is taken. Stay away and don't touch. 

This is the most screwed up planet I've ever lived on. No wonder I'm misunderstood.

Get married or hitched, live in an exclusive bubble and don't dare look at another person of the opposite sex. No wonder relationships don't last. Gotta come up for air sometime.
 

satori

hey Mimi, this was a thread about luci's personal situation.  I don't know how anyone else feels but personally I would feel attacked if your comment were leveled at my personal support thread.

there's already a thread about friends/exes/jealousy in general.  or a person could start a fresh one.  but since your comment is HERE I'm going to respond to it:

no one has all the answers, including you.  feel free to get all judgey, and I'll feel free to be PISSED. 

SaDiablo

'They say that having an emotional relationship is considered cheating. So if you're friends, and friend is having emotional issues and talks to you about it, it's cheating."

No, that's not emotional cheating.  Emotional cheating is when you go to an outside party with things that, by rights, you should be telling your partner about.  When you view your partner as "just that person you go home to at night," and get all of your emotinal intimacy from someone else, that's an emotional affair.  If you're worried about your job, your parents, your relationship, what have you, and the first person you go to for comfort and advice isn't your partner, then you've already emotionally checked out of your relationship and are actively working to kill it completely.  IMHO, of course.

miss

((((luci)))) I am sorry you have to deal with this shit. I have been there and it sucks!! Take care of yourself and know that you already know the answers. xoxo

HarinderSeera

Hey Luci, sorry to hear that you have to deal with this kind of shit but here is an advice from a male and it is MOVE ON. I am sure you could do better with your life, without him. You don't wanna be with someone who doesn't treat you well. 

ram

((((luci))))

I'd like to add something but Notariem really said all I ever wanted to add :-)

I think you can take as much time as you want to get over the guy...but the relationship seems to me already finished...

acknowledge this will preserve you form having more disappointed expectation towards his behaviour....

he seems to be used to be a "good friend"...could he be that for you until the day you make it to move out?

sorry, I'm just a saturnish libra and this is my best advice for a pisces "-)

 

TAH

Hi Lucy and company, 

So sorry to hear what you're going through.  From what I see: He's cheating on you, but because he's rationalizing it, you have no hard evidence for yourself to present to him to back up why you should leave him.  This is how I see it because I was in a situation like this. And you're watery (Pisces?), so it's so hard to leave. 

For me, I must admit I put up with a lot of shit before I'm over it. But I can't bring myself to break up with anyone. I've never broken up with anyone before. But sometimes I'm already over the person, I'm just waiting for them to break up with me. It sounds kinda horrible, but that's what my pattern is.

For you, of course I don't want to tell you what to do, and am only here to offer support and advice, and an empathetic heart. Maybe you'll leave. Maybe you'll wait till he leaves you. Maybe it'll take you more or less time to get over it all.  In any case, my bottom line is: I hope it does end, for your happiness and your emotional health. You don't deserve to be this unhappy. You deserve to be treated well, and to feel loved. If you are feeling unloved by the person who should be loving you, that is plenty of reason to start separating yourself from then, whether it be slowly or suddenly.

Best of luck, and I think I can safely say here that we're all rooting for you. :) 

user

The part about the swimming hurt me a lot to read. He's off swimming and having fun doing something he knows you also like to do (and even if he forgot, you've reminded him).

Somewhere out there, there is a man (or more than one) who wants to go swimming with you, but you'll never meet him if you are with this guy.

Piya

This is one thing I love about this community. (Nearly) Everyone has such good advice. Luci, I hope you are able to put some of this stuff into reality <3