Why does this situation sound remarkably like the student protests of the 1960's when Uranus and Pluto were conjunct in Virgo???

Quebec's provincial government has passed an emergency law restricting demonstrations and shutting some universities as the government seeks to end three months of protests against tuition fee increases. Outraged students reacted by calling it an act of war.

Among the provisions of the law, which passed 68-48 on Friday, is a requirement that police be informed eight hours before a protest and told the route of any demonstration that includes 50 or more people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/19/quebec-passes-student-protest-law

I have been following this protest for a while now and I have to admit to not being sympathetic to the plight of the students.  Quebec continues to have one of the most inexpensive university tuitions in Canada and definitely in comparison to the US.  What hasn't been apparent is the extent to which the Quebec government has been heavily subsidizing university education forever.  And now it's slowing reducing its heavy subsidies...

Are you seeing evidence of Uranus sq Pluto too?

Definitely watching this too.  I think all of the young people protesting all over the world are tied together by this aspect.

I keep wondering how Saturn's transit through Scorpio is going to manifest in the generation with Pluto there natally.

I don't know the full story and I'm not gonna takes sides precisely because of that. I read about the minister of education or however it is called (I read it in french so I don't remember) resigned because she felt she was no longer contributing to the solution of the problem. She sounded very genuine (at least that's how the article presented it).

I do not understand the need for such violence, throwing Molotov cocktails et all. Having that in mind I can understand why Québec government decided to pass such a law. Such protests can escalate to great violence (just remember London riots last year) and eventually cause more damage then it was maybe intended.

I still don't know what exactly did the London rioters try to achieve?!

I keep wondering how Saturn's transit through Scorpio is going to manifest in the generation with Pluto there natally.

Yeah I wonder about it too.

ok - Quebec students pay about $2,500 per year in tuition. Compare that to $6,600 in Ontario or $5,700 in Nova Scotia.  The tuition increase was only going to go up by $250 a year!  Sure, proportionately that sounds big but in the grander scheme of things, I think they are still getting a huge deal.  I know Quebec's relationship with it's citizens is very different than in the other provinces but the students have it really really good in my opinion.

I really don't understand the point of the protests. It makes little sense to me!

I actually really agreed with this writer:

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/05/18/the-cost-of-charests-cowardice-good-students-are-being-sold-out

Could not understand why they were allowing this to go on. What these kids learned is that through this sort of behavior they can control the administration and grind the system to a halt. Completely failing their educational needs.

I think it's an excuse for the would-be students to riot and run wild, to bully their way into things. Is it they think their education should be fully subsidized to the extent of the French system? Is this part of the Scorp Pluto generation? 

Many students will be affected by the semester schedule change, especially the top ones who rely on scholarships who had their education and plans derailed for other applications and exchanges with other universities or research facilities.

http://montreal.mediacoop.ca/story/ten-points-everyone-should-know-about-quebec-student-movement/10896

Haven't finished reading this but thought it was an interesting look from the students' perspective.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/anger-quebecs-anti-protest-law-spreads-drowns-tuition-090023625.html

The movement is growing but the tuition issue is being drowned out.

I have no qualms with agreeing with this protest when you take it from the persepective of debt-load.

The fact than an education - and I get that not everyone is into "formal" education beyond grade 12 - forever shackles a student to pecuniary slavery is ridiculous.

The whole university system is out of whack. Similar to many other systems we've bought into.

I came across this yesterday:

http://vimeo.com/42848523 

I also think we would behoove all of us to make note of the fact that it is entirely possible that the students may not be the source of violence. Saying "no" is seen by many as : I think it's an excuse for the would-be students to riot and run wild, to bully their way into things. (Quoted from above.)

I was recently accused, just yesterday as a matter of fact, of being a bully. I find this a surprising and shocking statement. When saying "no" to the powers that control you and bringing attention to a "hidden" process is touted as bullying by the very people you are saying "no" to...  It gives one pause. Especially if one has made repeated effort to resolve the issue through dialogue and cooperation.

I wouldn't base my opinions on this on media representation, and not even on the video I linked above. Look to your own experiences, imagine yourself in the situation... Look at the figures. Consider the future.

We've reached the point of no return re: sustainability. Some of what we've grown wildly out of control will have to be dismantled.

I find it interesting that money is at issue in all instances (it seems to me) of blow-ups all over the world. If money has made the world go round, I think these break-downs are indicating that money, in fact, does not make the world go round. Time to pay attention to what does.

I'm sorry, what debt-load? $2500? plus $250? How reasonable is that? Where else in the world can you receive an education with that? You can make that in 2 months at minimum wage. If working for their own future and taking responsibility to invest in their own eeducation is too much for these kids to see, then I question their ability to understand the world they live in at all, let alone attend uni. Dear god. If you knew anyone elses's stories on this front...I have nothing more to say if they are worried about $2750 A YEAR.

If they were worried about $25,000 -$40,000 a year of debt, it would make more sense, as the investment and years it would take to pay it off would put a sizeable amount of responsibility. Let's not forget, these are college-level kids who would be expected to contribute to the world and work at jobs that pay above a certain level after they graduate. If that is not in their plans, they are free to pursue something more aligned with their interests.

And I do not think being difficult, unreasonable, and using peer pressure to derail very hard working students, admin, and other groups is at all respectful. And yes, I do know enough about the Canandian, Australian, US, and French systems to say something about this. I was in their very same position once. But how I chose to deal with it was very different. And I shudder to think what they have learned from this and will do next. You do not force entire systemic shut-downs to throw baby tantrums. To negotiate something reasonable in this world we live in, sure, but this behavior is out of line, IMO.

I agree with you starkttn.  Quebec students have the lowest tuition in Canada and upon graduating are faced with low housing costs and probably not bad job prospects.  I've struggled to understand this student protest and I really don't get it. I don't understand what the problem is.

I agree with you guys too.  I don't really see this issue as somethig compelling enough to protest over.  And believe me, I support affordable post-secondary tuition, I just think Quebec students have it very good.  But I find it very interesting that this movement is growing for reasons that have nothing to due to the original cause, and are mainly related to Charest's response.  I'm taking it as an example of how uranus square pluto can eslate unrest. 

It seems rather telling that the educational needs and tuition is no longer the main issue, but as the trigger for all sorts of people to voice their anger and needs. That says a lot about Charest and the various groups involved in this.

I'm all for getting everyone together to work things out, negotiate, formulate a plan going forward, but when cities and systems are at standstills, it slows us all down. Not to make things sound worse, but this goes on at the expense of what they could have been doing during all these months, while everyone else around the world moves on.

I do understand on a personal level the pressure and stress they must be under - I was a student once too. Many of us would love to grow up in a fully subsidized system and have college education be available to all, but is it a feasible move at this time yet? We have a lot of people to feed, and it's not just students' needs that need to be taken into consideration. The money comes from everyone working hard, and the entire system must work together on this. It's certainly an admirable goal, but in this time and place, it does not seem to be a reasonable expectation to demand it materialize without physical input from all members.

This is not a one-time increase of $250.

http://quebectuitionfees.ca/howmuch.php

I have not fact-checked everything. I'm seriously all up some other topics right now.

But this is a plan to phase in, from now until 2017, a huge hike in their tuition. I've read and heard any amount from 78% to 143%.

This speaks to me directly to accessibility.

(I suppose, with my family background via my father -- he was the Director of Post-Secondary education for the province of Manitoba... I likely have a personal attachement to this business. By the end of his time in that position he was extolling trades and colleges. But that's a different topic/thread re: the Ivory Tower and its relevance.)

Not sure if this will make sense. But rather than think "they have it good" I'm more "all students should have it good."

Not every young person wants or should (by choice) go to university. However, if that is a choice, I don't think choosing to go that route should be any different than choosing another route. I also don't think that if that is the choice, and exorbitant price tag should be placed on it.

I am recalling the price tag of Caroline pursuing her education. That was a breath-stealing amount that she cited. SO Caroline, who I consider amazing and a person who would be amazing in her field, gets cut from this possibility because her debt coming out would be completely unmanageable. This does not make sense to me.

As you can see... This is yet another topic that has me whirling in my head. I've also been thinking about knowledge al lot. And how we all come to knowledge (so many definitions) in various ways, to various ends.

Anyway. Blah. I feel barely coherent and totally unanchored. And no facts to point to to say this this and this. So... stepping away.

I totally DO see your point, starkttn.

I really do.

michele, and I see yours. :) That's what I aim for too.

I'm just sort of a stickler for functional processes. Taurus, I think! But my Sag thinks, yes! We should all be in that boat! But I find there are many funding sources for good students still in North America. Someday, we will get there. The German system is pretty great example for trades, colleges, and university streams. And free for the most part. But that's a whole other topic.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/05/26/montreal-classe-student-protests-bill-78.html

It's definitely mushroomed due to the government response.

I can see how maybe they're right to fight to keep their low tuition.  I most likely will not be going to university this fall after all, primarily because it's TOO FUCKING EXPENSIVE.  Maybe students elsewhere should be revolting against the prices too.  We've got to the point where only the elite can afford to be educated, which seems very dangerous to me.

@Korellyn :( oh dear.  I hope there is some way you can sort this out.

I don't understand this Protest either, mahchi.
Have you seen the casseroles montreal protest video? I can't post it from here, but it is quite interesting from an artistic point of view. Apparently the video has gone viral.

Don't worry too much mahchi, we're actively sorting. :)  But it's never a straight path anywhere, is it?

@Korellyn - that is so true...maybe you should go to school in Quebec - LOL!  Just bite the bullet and learn French...they'd probably pay you to learn :)

Hrm, I wonder what the residency requirements are there anyways?  I have no problem with learning French if I can do so properly immersed....

Non-resident tuition there is sky-high of course, to help subsidise the rest.

I believe the residency requirements are that you file a tax return as a Quebec resident. For example if you moved there next week and filed a 2012 tax return next spring you would be considered a resident.

@ ntm... the video you speak of is linked in my first comment.

I absolutely can see the point of the protest and not least because most of the people in the current government benefitted from cheap tuition fees themselves! Who exactly is entitled?

Personally I don't think the whole argument that 'it's not that bad so shut the fuck up you self-entitled brats' is a real argument. I seem to be hearing it a lot.

No one wants to acknowledge that the right to protest is being challenged. These things have a trickle down effect. It's Pluto in Capricorn, people.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/24/john-moore-its-the-older-generation-thats-entitled-not-students/

" We've got to the point where only the elite can afford to be educated, which seems very dangerous to me."

EXACTLY. I am in enormous debt, which I choose to be in because I wanted to go to university. I don't understand not supporting an affordable education, I really don't. It confounds me. Utterly, completely confounds me.

The caps were removed in BC some time in the early 00s and fees have skyrocketed. The government does not give a fuck about affordable education, and I'm sorry--graduating with $28,000 in debt--the national average--is not affordable. Period.

http://www.hilltimes.com/news/2011/06/08/mps%E2%80%99-pension-plan-on-hook-for-$804-million-says-new-report/27884

Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe, who pointedly declared his commitment to Quebec sovereignty during the English and French television debates, left for a new life in Quebec with a pension that the Canadian Taxpayers Federation estimated at $140,765 a year, before taxes. Former Conservative MP Jay Hill, who retired late last year after entering Parliament in 1993 on the Reform Party rallying cry against the gold-plated plan, left with estimated $100,000 annual pension, before taxes. Liberal John Cannis, who lost his Scarborough-Centre, Ont., riding to the Conservatives and who never made it into Cabinet during 18 years in Parliament, received a pension of $97,902, indexed to cover inflation like all the pensions.

Despite the contrast between the cushy landing for MPs and the government’s plan to cut thousands of federal public service jobs over the next four years, as well as programs that serve the public, MPs yesterday rejected any suggestion Parliament should again review the generous pay and pension plans for MPs and senators.

It must be nice, is all I have to say.

Sorry Michele, I didn't check that link.

There are some good points here about the reasons for the protest. At least they are protesting for a cause and not just sacking and burning the town because their team lost the hockey game.

Let me put this in another way for the astrologically-minded folks. How do we pass on legacies? How would we exchange that knowledge and experience without the person involved holding something? Do you get me here? This complaining about "elites" - where is this energy coming from, exactly, internally? Do these folks realize, upon graduaton, they will be the elite - educationally and culturally, at the very least?

It may actually be feasible to have a fully subsidized higher education system as the budget certainly allows it. The trouble is the current budget doesn't allot as much to education as some wish. It's entirely in your hands - right down to the voting process. Thing is, now it's suddenly someone else's job to take this on and sort it all out for these kids? Something doens't smell right here. Who's doing the work for whom?

I'm about to graduate from college myself, and I can fully understand why these students are protesting. I'm leaving with a 12k debt on my shoulders and I'm one of the lucky ones. looking into an uncertain future on job and economy prospects, I'm not sure how my mom and I can pay this thing off at a reasonable pace. Meanwhile, politicians, lobbyists and other privileged people who make these tuition increases  enjoy benefits that the common folk doesn't have access to in these times, like cheaper or even free tuition.

Which always brings up a point whenever the cost of college comes on the table: is it even worth spending all that money and going into debt just to pay for college? What would be the point when the future looks dim for all but certain professions?

And as an aside, current budget projections are just that - projections based on yearly proposals and allocations, with inflation. This isn't only a Quebecois issue. They are not some form of mandate at all. It's a basic political process, which, unfortunately, is learned in university for many. These things could change with the people in office if they were someone sympathetic and committed to equal educational opportunities. It's feasible and something you could vote and actively campaign to phase in as early as next year.

I think the goal of education for all is the goal, but it's much better to channel all of that delightful energy into something lasting and can be repeated by the next generation.

The real collateral damage is always the hard-working ones who learned their lessons on time extraordinarily - scholarship students and those who work and go to school, anyone remember them? These are the folks that have been pushed to the side to suffer even more. But I will bet you they will be fine and come out on top. :)

tedarka - then don't freak out. plan. build trust. organize, guerilla-style if need be. pace yourself. work hard, learn about the world, see what's needed, make yourself useful. build relationships. there is no "it's not fair, other people have it better!" anymore. I would love to be Gisele Bundchen, but I'm not.

I cannot do the motivation for you - it comes from inside.

But that said, congratulations! And is it worth it? What IS it worth? All that you've learned...surely there is something beyond money in all of that? Surely you are leaving with more than a piece of paper and a spiffy hat?

I don't know. Really. I consider the pumber guy I count on  the elite. Or anyone who can do something I haven't had the opportunity to learn. Or IT. I am a secret nerd... But do I have the knowledge of the IT guy/gal that I have to call to solve complex problems I cannot solve??? Same with philosophical, metaphysical, mathematical... you name it.  I just don't have all that shit stored in my head. Ad the stuff I have stored in my head??

I suspect '"elite" needs a redefinition.

If you share what you know and have with me and I share what I have and know with you -- there is simply shared knowledge. And then we are both ahead of the game. It doesn't make you or I any better than the other.

I need to lose this thread. :(

Exactly. And there you go. These things all have value. So use it, monetize it, or not, it's valuable. And so what is this complaining about the elite we are doing? If it's about competencies and areas of expertise, we ought to engage in learning and conversation, not fighting each other.

This is why I prefer another method. Granted, I like dialogue, some are more action-oriented.

But really, michele, if it's very important to you and if you ever have the time, I would love to hear what your father or you think and envision for the province you live in. It's important. We just need to get our plans all lined up. Hugs.

starkttn- thanks! But what's at the forefront of my mind right now is finding ways to pay this debt, rather than what I really wanted to do as a graduate: dip my toes into the job market and do what I went to school for.

Tuition and education are always hot topics to me because it's disapointing that all my state's lawmakers do is devalue it with department cuts and tuition hikes. I can say that I'm seeing a trend where average folk nowadays are waiting a while before they enter college. The cost and the debt associated with it is a great deterrent.

We're frustrated with a lot things happening at the same time: job loss, funding, debt, tuition hikes. Rioting probably seemed like the only thing to do for the Quebecois and I wouldn't be surprised if it happened in the US at some point during this transit. Something's gotta change before the rigid folks up top dig a hole we can't climb out of.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/05/30/matthew-unger-striking-students-are-misunderstood-and-deserve-our-support/

Not an in-depth analysis by any means, but makes very good points.

"If you take for example what a previous generation of researchers understood to be markers of adulthood— independence, both social and economic, stable career paths, and stable life partners with offspring—very few people can fulfill these criteria at any point in their lives in this day and age. If you take an age designation for adulthood, we would find that the mean age for entry into adulthood where at least a couple of these categories are fulfilled would be around 35. That is 17 years of legal adulthood without the ability to function in society like an adult! This is bound to cause some tension."