This came up as an aside in the astrology class.

Do you think anyone is satisfied with these relationships?

Is it good to have something to tide you over or do they do more harm then good or inevitablelu end painfully (for someone)?

Anyone?

What ever happened to, "Why screw up a perfectly good friendship with sex?"  or "We were great friends until we had sex." 

All joking aside sex for the sake of having sex does more harm than good and does eventually do long term damage to one's self worth and self esteem. Ask any therapist.

Just my opinion, but like everybody else, learned it the hard way.

I think they probably do more harm than good in most situations.

But I've done it before, and I had a hell of a great time while it lasted (a couple months, we hooked up about 3 times total). Granted, we didn't call one another for booty, just happened to run into each other and ahem...have a good time.

I think that the simpler the relationship, the easier it is to detach. And of course the other side of the coin, more expectations lead to hurt feelings in the long run...

double posted...weee!

99.5% of the time some one develops feelings for the other one. I was in one of these and he had convinced himself he loved me, I had to politely and kindly extract myself. It ended without trauma, but we aren't in each other's lives anymore.

No. such. thing.  At least in my world.  

whats the harm in physically loving a friend if you already emotionally love them? i think it can make the bond stronger if you are both honest and open with your feelings. friends make great lovers and lovers make great friends.
it also depends on what you want out of the situation. do you want it to give? or just get off?

sex is fun and pleasure is good for you.

why does sex have to be so serious? Play around with all your friends!!!!

I don't think trauma is inevitable.  I think it's really hard to find that sort of situation where everyone is being honest with themselves and each other and where the level of interest is well matched.  You could say that about any relationship though from friends, to fwb to married partners with mismatched sex drives.  

We just sort of drifted the way friends sometimes do, we just grew apart. But because we were never together in a proper sense, we didn't break up proper either.  It was like our intimacy was not given a fitting farewell.  This was the hardest part for me.

I have one. I absolutely like him, and he likes me, but it is a purely platonic like. I have poked myself repeatedly to see if there are romantic feelings involved, and there are not. There just aren't. But as a friend and sexual partner, I trust him and I can be affectionate with him and vice versa. He gives me an opportunity to do some relationship and sexual calisthenics and I provide him with an outlet of whatever it is that he's needing. I don't really pry about it that much. It has a comforting quality to it when we are together. 

He's a Sag with a great deal of Capricorn, so he's more earthy and stand-stillish than your usual Sagittarius.

I have a couple caveats though. I am older and know my mind more than a younger adult or young girls. And this is the important one: my experience with this fellow is the EXCEPTION, NOT THE RULE, in terms of finding a FWB that "works," what ever working means.

I think that if that's your goal, it can be had, but after trying it on for size with others -- few actually ended in intimate relations -- it's truly a difficult needle in a haystack to find. And I know that ultimately it will not be enough, and when we have both healed our damage, we will go a nonsexual association or none at all. 

My other observation? if you're looking for a FWB because you don't have time to date, when it comes down to it, you don't have time to fuck either. Love is love and sex is sex, but they both take time regardless of whether both are present, and if you don't have time, you won't get either.

Wow, I think I just wrote an algebraic formula of a really twisted sort. :)

Oh, and to our young Scorpio up there -- it doesn't have to be serious. But humans are human. What's easy for you is probably not easy for the majority of people you meet. And it may have been easy for you up to now, but you will meet someone who won't make it so for you.

I mean, shit. TIDDLYWINKS is fun. I can't put sex on the same level as a game. I'm not fucking around with someone's psyche when I make them pay rent on my Monopoly hotel. I don't get pregnant from playing pinochle.

Also, you gotta watch it so your dick doesn't fall off from disease. That's serious regardless of the state of emotion at play.

It would never have been possible for me - I either attach or un-attach.  

But like with everything else, to each his own....

Only if both parties involved are almost inhumanly detached. The odds of both of you doing that are not good.

Being a heavy Capricorn, I don't take these situations lightly in the least.  When I give of myself, I give my whole self ....all or nothing for me, so I can't do this type of thing.  But, I have a close friend who has several friends with benefits and she thrives on it.....she is a Sag, too and much more free-spririted than I am.....I have often envied that in her.

Having a sag venus (and sag stellium) the lines between lovers and friends used to be blurred for me when i was younger. Now, I see that just isn't the case. At 27, and feeling like I'm becoming more spiritually evolved as a human being, I just don't want to taint that sacred bond with someone. Being free with my sexuality was fun and liberating with friends as lovers, but now...I see that it can get you into trouble...both karmically and possibly physically. Inevitably someone is going to get burned. Plus, as a woman we can't help our hormones when they start kicking in with that sexual somebody....

My vote is just don't do it. Could be my cap mars starting to take over!  AH! Maturity! errr

"My vote is just don't do it."

Heh, you're a better woman than I.

I can and I do.
I'm inclined to nonmonogamy, anyway, and the vast majority of my dating life has been spent inside "networks" of FWB.  I try to make my rules pretty clear upfront, but that doesn't mean that there haven't been a (blessed) few that ended in dissatisfaction.  Even then, though, I would have to state it was drama-free and relatively untramatic, I think maybe because I stress the friends instead of the benefits.  There are very few of my formers that I'm still in contact with, though, mostly because of the drifting-away thing, but when we run into each other we're still pleasant and friendly.

I do want to second neva on this part, though:
"What's easy for you is probably not easy for the majority of people you meet."

Big ol' true dat.
The friends I've lost because of this, although they're few, were still dear to me and it imploded because they wanted more than I was willing to give.  There are a lot of people that think they can do a FWB, that it will be fun and great and just what's needed, but end up getting attached anyway and then it turns into an emotional minefield/morass that hardly ever ends well for either party.

I think it's like other nontraditional relationships - it can work, but it's tricksy.  I'm pretty open that my close friends are almost exclusively current or former lovers.  (Not by design, but that's how it's worked out)  It definitely takes work, though, and requires all involved parties know themselves a bit and be honest with their motivation.  And I don't honestly think it works for most people.  I'm just glad it seems to work for me, because it suits me well.

LOL neva:

"I mean, shit. TIDDLYWINKS is fun. I can't put sex on the same level as a game. I'm not fucking around with someone's psyche when I make them pay rent on my Monopoly hotel. I don't get pregnant from playing pinochle."

 Touché my friend. Yes, its hard to say where I stand on the issue. Normally I say no, but lines can get blurred easily especially when it starts out as a no strings attached kind of fling, and then feelings develop...Do you take it to the next level? Are you naïve for even trying? Because then again, if the other person values you and is attuned to your intimate needs (ie. not just "fucking"), a real sexual connection can be so healing. 

I second who's that lady on the fact that as my maturity and spirituality start to "kick in", Im not sure if I want to share that bond with just any passing fancy, especially if it could include losing a good friend. Bottom line: buy a vibrator!

to neva, i think you misinterpereted, i never said anything about sex being a game. i also never said it was easy to have FWB. I agree with what saDiablo said about nonmonogamy. this is also how i am. it takes a lot of hard work and honest mindfulness to make something like this work. i currently have 3 friend with benifit relationships on the go. Those are the ones with sexual play involved. i have many other friends whom i kiss and cuddle on occation. Friends first tho. Its a love thing. Unlimited unconditional love. Nonmonogamy allows this. i love it

You may have not said that, strictly speaking, but that was the impression you gave off. But now you've clarified yourself and all is copacetic.

If it works for you and your partners are cool, then count yourself lucky and walk with God, friend.

...I have another thought about what I just said about luck. I think that a lot of people are born with lucky tendencies and thus can take it for granted, or assume that's the life condition for everybody else. You have Venus in Scorpio rising conjunct 40 million other planets in Scorp , which to me indicates some inborn luck in as a sexual individual? Which, if true, is like pretty freaking awesome, right? It might have something to do with your relatively smooth road in polyamory.

Me, I have lucky planets in the first house trine Venus in another house and I have been shithouse lucky when all the world is falling apart around me. It often makes me feel abashed because I don't know what I did to deserve a get-out-of-jail-free card on so many occasions and so many other people suffer. I will never, ever take it for granted.

What I'm trying to say is that astrologically, sometimes you get dealt aces in one respect, and that colors your expansiveness toward that area. This may be why your response to this particular question is largely unencumbered by troubles and sorrow, whereas others in this thread have a more tempered response. 

Well, it's 4:15am where I am and I have no idea if anything I just said makes sense. Everything I said is meant with utmost kindness and respect. I am but a wanderer like everyone else on this journey.

i had many FWB in my life, 8 years ago i had a co-worker that secretly loved me and i loved her. both of us would know when da other one is horny or what ever da other is feeling. i moved away without saying good by, i just did her chart now becouse at the time i didnt know astrology.

same sun/venus (cancer)

her mars in leo

me jubiter rising in leo. moon in sag rising

last time i saw her she was going to marry some guy she hated, 2 months later i maried some girl that i knew for only three weeks.  how u wonder = venus in 11 th house =may/decemberrelationship,suprise.

Bold, fearless, freedom loving people will do well in these types of relationships, and insecure people who worry about what others think probably won't. It also depends on "how many friends" you have. If it's just you and the one "friend" then the only time that any awkwardness may surface is, say, if you've got a wedding to attend and need a date, and you aren't sure if it's appropriate to bring said friend. But that, as mentioned, is fear speaking. I mean, you could ask, and if they said no, you could go alone and not feel stupid. It's all a personal choice.

Sometimes you just want to get laid once a month with no hassle, and these types of arrangements can work, for a while, anyway. Boinking your buddy is one step up from finding an NSA lover on, say, CL... which is one step up from calling up a prostitute. ;)

But then, if you start dreaming of cooking elaborate sunday dinners for your buddy, or dragging them to family functions, and then they don't oblige... you may end up feeling jilted and left out in the cold. 

I don't regret any FWB situations I've been in... but then, I'm 37 and the rest of my friends all have families that they're mostly too involved with to spend much time with me. AND I may never have kids at this point. Maybe I SHOULD regret them. If having a family isn't important to you, then spend the bulk of your single years not committing and you'll end up alone in the end.

I am a Sagittarius sun. Most all of my friends are men with the exception of my two good gal friends. And all of my men friends are Air sun signs. Either Aquarius or Libra.
There are lots of benefits from having men friends that have nothing to do with SEX!

Thankfully I have an understanding Leo husband!

Lola: Bottom line: buy a vibrator!

I just wanted to say that I'm in favor of this no matter what the situation :)

I could never, ever do this, not with Venus/Pluto conjunct, but if it works for someone else, go for it.

I don't think most people are equipped for this.  They put friends on a different level than people they're having sex with.  They either feel nothing (casual lays) or everything for that person.  Where do friends fit in with all or nothing?  Right smack in the gray area.  I don't know too many people, me included, who are comfortable with those gray areas.

notatirem on vibrators - "I just wanted to say that I'm in favor of this no matter what the situation :)"

HAHAHAHA!

thank you for making me laugh yet again. 

If I'm friends with someone then as a rule I'm not attracted to them. 

notatirem *LOL* me too

Count me in for LMAO thanks to notatirem. :)

@ notatirem - me too!  And I spent a year working in a toy store, so I often am asked to accompany/advise friends on their shopping.  Pretty cool if you ask me *big grin*

Seems such a poor substitute for a committed relationship. For me it would not work because I would always prefer commitment.  So If I wasn't in a committed relationship but had a "friend with benefits" I would actually resent that there was no commitment.  If there was some way to have your cake and eat it too.  I think it could work maybe in the "open relationship" concept, but for me there would always have to be commitment to a primary partner.  I suspect this arrangement is probably nearly impossible, or at best a poor substitute for something better.  But I have no stake in this speculative opinion it so if it works for some people good for them!

For me, a friend is a friend and a lover is a lover.  I've never been in that situation but I imagine it'd be impossible for me.  Sex is soooo NOT casual to me, so I couldn't just casually be having sex with a friend without some sort of emotion attached to it. 

But I realize that not everyone has the same attitude as me, so kudos to whoever can seperate the two.  =D

@Shell

Ah then perhaps it's a thing cause I have that too. Detaching and sex don't go together. If I wanted to I could but it's against my nature. I'm not the best at ONS for that reason as well which is sad cause I'm afraid I'm missing out on all the action! Everybodies stories are always so entertaining " about who was good and who was bad and did this and blablabla. 

I have so little experience so I can never join in on the  banter.

on the question - i couldn't do it, but certainly have no issue with those it suits. i support anyone into nontraditional as long as it works for them and they're not out there hurting others.

i have saturn in the 7th. relationships and commitment are one and the same to me.

fajalobi78--I had a one night stand once (pre-hubby, which means I was only 18), and I cried all day the next day, I felt so disappointed in myself not because of what others thought of me (nobody really knew anyways) but because of what I FELT inside.  The guy pursued me thereafter and I couldn't even be near him, I told him that I never had done anything like that before (as if he never heard that one before! lol) and I wasn't happy with my action.  He told me not to be so hard on myself (not the first time someones told me that though). 

All it did was solidify what I already knew about myself:  Your goodies are the shit.  Don't just be passin it around =)

LMAO!

Haha, shell--nicely put!  Gave me a good laugh...at WORK, as usual!  To hell with 'em if they can't laugh once in a while around this place, anyways.  Thanks for the laugh!  :D

"We just sort of drifted the way friends sometimes do, we just grew apart. But because we were never together in a proper sense, we didn't break up proper either.  It was like our intimacy was not given a fitting farewell.  This was the hardest part for me."

Weren't you a  Venus/Uranus in Scorpio (actually, I think we are quite close astrological twins, even if I doubt we were born the same year, I remember you mentioning an outer planet that's positioned differently) ? I ask because I'm one too, and know the feeling.

But "growing apart" was quite painful for me, because my "friend with benefits" also had his Sun on my Anti-Vertex - there was a strong sense of a karmic connection, I met him and just knew I knew everything about him - and I was going through a Saturn square Venus/Uranus transit. Loads of very upsetting things happened. He tried to contact me later, but I didn't even answer his phone calls. I just didn't feel it necessarely to talk with him. I had learnt all I needed to learn from that relationship.

@Shell. I managed to have 2 ons my entire live. I didn't feel bad or anything cause I didn't feel like I violated myself. It just felt off. But I've read that the  needs to feel loved to be able to have sex. That's perhaps why the friends with benefits thing isn't me either. I mean I do love my friends but it has nothing to do with romantic love. It's a bit boring but I guess there are worse things in life. 

i've had friends... that had another level to the interaction... but it was respected... there's power to that stuff and i don't think it should be treated superficially.

"no strings attached" i think is impossible.  sex causes attachments.  it's good to at least be aware of that.

I've had a long-term "friends with benefits" relationship (over seven years) and it's worked beautifully, probably because we are very close friends. Not a romantic relationship, but still a lot of feeling there. I think it helps that we're both Sag moons with lots of Libra. It's a Platonic relationship (and originally "platonic" didn't neccesarily mean "no sex.")

 It's not for everyone, definately not, but it can work.