composites versus synastry.

WTF? what is the difference? where's the Reader's Digest version???

eg. my soon to be ex-partner has his Saturn at 8 degrees Capricorn and my Moon is at 9 degrees Capricorn. When I talk about this...is this a composite thing or a synastry thing?

what about you? what is something that doesn't make sense to you, from a learning/comprehension standpoint about astrology?

kash - Libra rising charts make me have to stand on my head and close an eye.  Then my son was born with one, ha ha ha ha

Cute!

my sister (who "doesn't believe in astrology")

Her: "My baby is going to be a Libra. What does that mean...never mind."

Me: "Well, you're a Libra Rising!"

Her: "What the hell does that mean!?"

All I could come up with in my stupidstate was "well you're stunningly gorgeous and you dress well?" 

Everything I read about, every transit, "happens" about two days before it's on my astro.com chart. And then I tell people and they tell me this is normal. But it happens with aspects too! Like Venus trine Jupiter this week...I think it happened Thursday night for me! Maybe I just don't know enough, but still...

Everything I read about, every transit, "happens" about two days before it's on my astro.com chart. And then I tell people and they tell me this is normal. But it happens with aspects too! Like Venus trine Jupiter this week...I think it happened Thursday night for me! Maybe I just don't know enough, but still...And this especially happens with houses. Thinking about timing gives me a headache.

The foreign language.  I've read horoscopes all my life and have some more in-depth books, but what I need is a good english to astrology dictionary translator or something. 

IOW, even though I've had a lifelong interest in the subject I'm still dumb as a rock about it all. 

oh! and inconjunct aspect. I know it's 150 degrees, but in which direction? aries-->pisces or other way? 

my hope is that those of us who "gets" something someone else posts as something that confounds them, will share it. 

North South East West is confusing.

DreamsA, I actually have (had?) a wonderful book that was a dictionary...so useful. can't find it right now but i'll post the title when it finds it's way home to me

The Rising sign.  I know what it is, and that it's our presentation, and it sets up the houses in the chart, but I don't completely get the emphasis because if it's just a presentation, it doesn't feel like it should be that important.  Yet it is, which means to me it must have a much deeper meaning which is still beyond my understanding.

dolce, did you know they use to use the Rising sign as your sign, not your sun sign?

It was considered more important back then.

I wonder why they changed it?

kashmiri, I think the situation you described with your moon and your partner's Saturn is synastry - how people interact in a relationship. As I understand it, a composite chart is a chart done on the nature of the relationship itself. I remember one of Elsa's blogs clearing it up for me big time; I think it was this one:

Synastry vs Composite Charts - Round Two
I have a hard time understanding anything in astrology that's presented as dry and mathematical

I read years ago that Sun signs gained in popularity due to their inclusion in newspapers in the early 1900s...coincided with the rise of interest in Eastern philosophy, theosophy etc. hence the way daily horoscopes work

Thanks Francetta! that's awesome 

I'd also known a little about the Rising Sign having more importance than a Sun Sign in ancient times. I wonder how specific they could get with the degrees and angles so long ago. No computers! I'd be dead in the water without a computer when it came to this stuff.

Anyway, I always got the idea that Rising Signs were more important because it was the first impression people got of you. In Ancient Greece I imagine "what you see is what you get" held a lot of importance for several reasons; but mainly because people didn't live very long or have many options in life. I don't think astrology became as much of an introspective tool as it is today (such as looking at Sun sign motivations and how they jibe with the Asc. facade) until the 20th century. Until then it I think the focus was on the predictive side of things, which can be a very perilous thing to mess with

I get confused about the qualities of the asc and midheaven.

Francetta, that's interesting point to take it back to Ancient Greece....for the first time ever it comes to my mind that the way people appeared...was...well, in togas?  I wonder if Libra rising kept their toga's wrapped more seductively while Cap rising had those sandals strapped on tighter...what did they look at?  it must have had more to do with the physical, i suppose

forgive me...i think this jupiter with neptune/chiron conjunction is making me a bit slapdash as it is exact conjunt to my mercury in aquarius!! 

... my son is also Libra rising...that puts every house in it's opposite sign...um, & me, too....i think i'll go sleep with my feet on the pillow now...(i do that sometimes)

As for things i can't get my head around...i think the balance of power...the weight and most significant elements in a chart confuses me  (w/libra rising i need to know!!)  

Kashmiri

Inconjunct -    Aries-Virgo   ---- Aries - Scorpio @  Gemini - Capricorn ---- Gemini-Scorpio

Both directions   :)

lindsey, I think about that too (togas, the ancients mingling at a party) and I'm Cap Rising myself - the bit about the sandals is too funny!

I do not understand the position of  capricorn in the zodiac....

I see the second part of the wheel as the start of the spiritual path and I find hard to fit the capricorn materialism in there

For Kashmiri, from what I understand, a synastry chart looks at aspects one chart  makes to a second chart.  It is displayed as a double ring, one chart around the other.  The Cap aspect you speak of is a synastry conjunction.  (By the way, you and I have synastry conjunction, as my Cap sun is at 11 degrees.)  A composite chart, via midpoint method, is a single chart make up from placing the planets in the middle of the natal positions  in the respective charts being compared.   The composite chart made of midpoints is not a real date.  I think there is another type composite chart that is a real date that is set at the midpoint time between two birth dates.  I'm foggy there.

I am foggy on inter-aspects.   Neith wrote about them on her blog.  I have some obvious ones with my husband, like we both have Jupiter-Sun trines.  I think Neith also looks at the same planet pairs being in aspect, regardless of the aspect.  But I'm not sure.  I have a terrible time trying to pick these aspects out of two charts laid out side by side. 

<font size="2">tomaui</font>

<font size="2">10th - Is the house of Social Status. It is about the place we accomplish in our social (career) cycle and in society as a whole. Its the status and the role that we take in our community and how our efforts are seen from the whole . </font>

<font size="2">Then there is an ego gratification coming from the financial rewards. Its up to us how we use it! We can use it to help and improve our community.  </font>

I don't understand progressed charts and don't even come at me with the solar arc shit.

Composite charts are calculated from the midpoints of two charts, both planets and all the house cusps. They describe the relationship and are affected by transits. However, John Townley (who came up with this idea) says the composite is more accurate the longer people are together. So if you have accurate birth data for family members, that's a good place to start studying composite.

Accurate birth times are critical for composites, the Vertex, Part of Fortune - any calcuated degree based on the chart wheel. And astro.com is a great place to get composite charts for free!

Hey Sue Ellen! Thanks for the mention! 

Intra-aspects are synastry aspects (where two charts are compared). The best way to find them is use a synastry grid. My software creates those and they are soooo handy! Basically intra-aspects are where the same two planets from both charts make synastry aspecs just as Sue Ellen said.That says Important! Think of it this way: those shared degrees are sensitised and whenever they are transited, both parties will feel it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm with Tam on things like Solar Arcs and horary charts and all those nit picky transit stuff. make my head hurt . . .

House systems..Equal house is the only one that works at any latitude, and it works..yet what about all the other ones, Placidus, Koch, Campanus, Morinus, Regiomantanus.. yep, does my head in.

Progressions.

I wonder how important they are, and if they ARE very important, do they make our natal aspects less prominent?

Kashmiri: 

I am totally with you: Synastry VS Composites - WTF???

I had a chart read of myself and my significant other and people can't specifically explain why it will be a difficult relationship.

Grrr..

Anyway... Hope you are doing better, Kash! *HUGS* 

thanks mmarianna!! although now I am kind of scared how many inconjunct aspects are in my chart, lol

sue ellen + neith that makes soooooo much sense! I do have a copy of "planets in composite" by robert hand so i'm looking at that. it's good to know longevity is a key...looking at is this way w/family + love life  

what i struggle with most is articulating the more intuitive stuff re: meanings of transits, etc. I keep meaning to make  those brain-cloud-thingys and then not!

thanks lunalie x 

What's a "brain-cloud-thingy"? ;) Is it a brainstorming type of chart or something? Because when I type "brain cloud" into a search I get these...unsavory tumor articles :x lol

ha ha yes that's it exactly. i wonder what they are called for real?

This may be oversimplifying but I tend to see synastry as how two people affect one another based on the interaction between their charts as others have described.  A composite chart is the hologram of the two people as one unit, how that unit behaves in the world and how it affects others or is perceived by others. 

I'm sure I poached at least part of that from Elsa over the years though.  

Oh and I am reasonably good at reading a natal chart and have a good basic understanding of transits but can't for the life of me translate it into english so the average non astrologer can understand what I'm saying.  I get caught up in trying to teach astrology so I can explain the chart. 

That and I miss the most obvious transit anytime I try to actually read for someone or myself.  Maybe another five or ten years of reading Elsa and looking shit up as it happens and I'll be ok at this.  :)  

hey that's awesome, thanks lupa! i miss transit stuff, too. eventually it'll sink in this. mercury in taurus is slooooooooow at learned some stuff, whoa so very slowwww

Horary astrology just throws me for a loop. Seems like so many rules and classifications. I just glaze over. I wish that wasn't the case though.

Also, for some reason I seem to have such a hard time in getting the first applying aspect. It shouldn't be hard at all but for some reason it is for me.

thanks mmarianna

Horary. I've read Horary Astrology Plain and Simple and the skyscript webpage and I'm still lost and confused. It's like nobody can break it down for total newbies, other than to say "Read William Lilly!", and I don't understand his writing style worth a damn either. Nobody defines anything well, and I can't figure out how the hell they are determining anything! I'd love to be able to do my own horaries, but how does anyone learn it?!

Solar arc stuff also baffles me. 

This talk of synastry vs composite inspires me to create a new thread. But GRRR... I have to stop slacking and head on over and take care of my Unemployment. Will post later :) 

Divisional charts. Not that many people pay attention to them, but I think they are practically purposeless. For one I can't read them when there is no pattern to follow.

I still have a hard time looking at the totality of a chart.  I feel overwhelmed when I look at the entire thing, I don't even know where to start analyzing and focusing. 

JenfullMoon, the leading light in the revival of Horary Astrology in the UK over the last century was Olivia Barclay who established a school, where you can become a Qualified Horary Practitioner. She bequeathed her school to astrologer Barbara Dunn whose school details are here. Olivia was wonderful, a fabulous inspirational lady and she gave generously of her time, devoting her whole retirement to upgrading and reviving William Lilley's work, which actually is very impressive. Horary is just a whole other area, but it's fascinating. 

 http://bdunnastrologer.com/Home 

Also US astrologer Barbara H Watters has written Horary Asrology and the Judgement of Events.. that's probably one of the simplest books to follow,

http://www.horary.com/  has school info from USA.

shell

Try to read the birth chart , the same way as you read a road map! First look at it as a whole , and then concentrate on the details and then again as a whole!   Both ways of looking are necessary.. otherwise you get stuck!

Big picture - separate- Destination A and B  ---> and then concentrate on the details(to connect  A-B)