OK, i'm taking a poll here. I have been trying to raise money for a local food bank and I have been met (really almost energetically assaulted,) by folks that have nothing short of hatred and disdain for anyone who is struggling on any level.  I am genuinely appalled that there is so much absolute hatred for those that are down and out. Of course, I get the usual lines, "it's their fault, their lazy, they are on drugs, etc. I'm also interested in getting a alternative housing organization coalition  going for affordable housing, (i.e., solar, green, energy efficient,) and am meeting with the same myopic, ignorant and discriminatory attitudes. Why? Is it fear? Is it selfishness?

I'd appreciate anyone here who has their own thoughts on this as I'm trying to understand why people cannot have compassion and respect for folks who are struggling, especially in these times.

It's called cognitive dissonance in psychology. People project their ideas onto reality. Reserach in the US has shown that people tend to think that 'people deserve what they get and get what they deserve'. Although this may be true in the BIG picture (but in the BIG picture who knows what is good and bad anyway)- in daily reality it's of course nonsense. There are many poor people who did not 'deserve' to be poor, and many rich ones who don't 'deserve' to be rich. It's not a welcome message.

Speaking solely of feeding the poor, this isn't what I personally have witnessed, in my city. For example at many local grocery stores there is a pad of scannable coupons that make an automatic $2 donation to the Food Bank. It goes straight onto your bill and they have them at the debit keypad.

There is also a hugely successful hot meals program, one of the biggest feeds thousands of people weekly and get all of their food donated from restaurants and grocery stores.

I agree that there is discrimination against the poor, and I think that a segment of society is extremely hardened. But I think it has always been this way, just as there always has been people who require help for whatever reason. Many many many people are struggling, perhaps they resent others 'getting a leg up' because they themselves don't get it...hard to say what other people's motivations are.

Saturn in Libra. Find people who give a shit. Limit time spent ruing those who don't. This is my strategy. No one has time to waste...

"Find people who give a shit. Limit time spent ruing those who don't." -Thanks, Kash, I have a new mantra now. :D

 People tend to view poverty and misfortune of all kinds as a communicable disease. The harder you push it (and people who have it) away the less likely it will ever happen to you. (So the rationale goes.) Also, poor people aren't all saintly and poverty has always been a part of human civilization. To some people this makes trying to do something about it a criminal act.

Off the top of my head: I don't think really rich people who have very organized finances want to give to any group or cause that is not similarly structured. They don't trust the management of the funds and want to see results the same way they want to see it in their investment portfolios. Accountability.

More random, grassroots endeavors are not going to inspire the same level of trust. 

Another thing: I think that people do not like anything that is seen as "ongoing" support, which keeps people at a certain level. I think people are much more inspired to support what would be considered "emergency" aid, because paople feel that anyone can have temporary bad luck, but that a lifestyle of poverty doesn't need to be encouraged.

Personally I wouldn't give money to anyone/organzation who was judging people who don't give as "selfish". I think anyone who is looking for money better understand that feeling an obligation to one's fellow man is not a universal impulse. That's why giving to the poor is codified in most organized religions to get people to do it. So instead, perhaps expecting nothing and being grateful for what comes is a better approach.

You know though, you seem pretty entrenched in your belief that people are not allowed to have a different opinion on how best to deal with the ills of society. You called their attitudes "myopic, ignorant and discriminatory". Aren't they allowed to disagree?

Ignorance

Welcome to pluto in capricorn. It's now about win-win and long term solutions. Not alot of people feel they have money to give to the homeless.. especially if they are not helping themselves. Obviously food banks are needed but one might argue that teaching someone to grow a garden is needed just as much. I was thinking about this when I was giving my time to help kids at risk. For lunch they fed them peanut butter sandwiches and ham sandwiches.. no lettuce.. nothing healthy and sustaining. It was like "oh well there's no money so we'll feed our kids crap".. what kind of message does that send? One that can keep people in poverty because they aren't being shown any other way.. when it's about showing them another way. It bothered me because I was giving my time.. if I was giving my time then why were they matching it with cheap crap? Could they not have negotiated subway sandwiches at least?

I don't have the answers and I believe compassion is needed during these times of change.. PixieDust said what I think the best.

erm, I wasn't saying I agreed that giving handouts is the best way to help the poor. And the attitudes I mentioned-  those were just some extreme ends of the spectrum. I want to make that very, very clear.

I'm not saying it's possible to help the poor either, just that some people have an obnoxious attitude about it.

I think sometimes when we someone who is clearly, clearly struggling, it makes us uncomfortable (guilty?), but we suppress that guilt, and it might turn around into being angry.  And I do agree, those of us who are still sort of getting by, it is still a struggle, and we don't like to feel guilty when we are asked to contribute, especially when we feel "shit, I am working my ass off, what the hell do you want from me now?".  And I do agree about the tendency to believe "you get what you deserve", I have seen a whole lot of that.  I don't know, it is a big subject.

having spent some time working with this population, i can add a perhaps unpopular perspective- i very seldom give to causes related to the homeless, poor etc. while some people wind up there through various circumstances out of their control - and i feel for that - many others are there because of drug abuse, lack of interest in self-sufficiency, or having burned out their natural support network of family and friends through years of abusing those resources. 

cynical? yeah. true? enough of the time to deter me. i work hard and choose to offer my support to places i feel like it will do the most good. i like charities that help children specifically. 

Goddess! Yes! I agree from what I've seen, crumbling foundations and drug abuse are MAJOR parts of it.

Goddess, I've also worked with those populations and I came to the same conclusion. I don't think I'm not compassionate. I think that it's a sad situation and throwing pearls before swine doesn't do anything to help.

It isn't my place to judge whether someone deserves to have food to eat. If I am made aware of a need I will do my best to meet it.

There are thieves that work the system their entire lives (my dad's half sister), but in a small community it's easy to filter those people out of my personal giving.

"I think sometimes when we someone who is clearly, clearly struggling, it makes us uncomfortable (guilty?), but we suppress that guilt, and it might turn around into being angry."

And some get angry because they suspect they are being prayed on by their discomfort. It's not ok to not want to give and live with the consequences.. one must be guilted into giving. 

Neptune in sag in the 2nd square jupiter in pisces in the 5th. I have given out of guilt in fucked up ways so I resent any kind of guilt manipulation. Now I just give monthly to a charity and am done with it. Right now i'm barely making money but still feel guilty because i live in a wealthy country. So no matter how hard i struggle to find more work I still know i'm blessed and will come out of it so can't cancel my contributions because i feel broke. Other people really are worse off. We pick where we give and how we give and resentment can build at the idea that "the other" has to fix "your" problems. Present a solution with an end in sight and i'm sure everyone would give. 

I bet you anything! that those who scorn the poor are wealthy folks. These are people who are trapped in their illusion and blinded by all there 100 dollar bills. They have no sense of reality. I am not saying all wealthy folks do this, but a great majority do. I use to pan handle alot as a teen, 98% of the time I asked a wealthy person for spare change and I got a whole lot of nothing or nothing with a snide comment. But those who were struggling like I, always seemed to give me dollar bills or 5 bucks or something. Those who don't suffer never know the truth.

Ugh, this gets me angry. This is what gets me to dislike humans. 

I don't judge. I don't care that you are an ex junkie or one at the moment. I don't care if you completely screwed yourself over with who knows what. If you are hungry I will give you food. We as humans need to help those in need.

it is all about "Food not Bombs" organizing with your community to cook pot luck food found from dumpsters or given to you for free by markets and feeding the homeless with a nice hot meal. =) That reminds me I should be going to 'food not bombs' every Sunday.

and "really really free markets" organizing your community to get all your stuff that works but you don't want and basically let anyone take what your giving and you take what you want from another. Wether its clothes, food, electronics, books etc. 

Thank you Bretagne, "If you are hungry I will give you food. We as humans need to help those in need".

Touches my pisces heart.

I agree with Goddess.  People who are homeless have often burned through their support systems by abusing them.  

On the other hand, I have been on both sides of the helping equation.  Good friends kept me from being homeless when the bottom dropped out of my world during a Pluto transit. And I have invited people in need into my home to get back on their feet on more than one occasion.  

Keeping my family strong and solid means that I may be a resource to good people I care about in future times of need.  

I live in an affluent area (in a more modest part of our little town).  I've done mobile grooming in this area and driven into neighborhoods where teams of illegal immigrants build the houses and manicure the lawns of the people who make the laws that discriminate against them.   

Then there were the months when I was working 10-12 hour days with my little boy in daycare and I would drive home to see the same dude working the same exit with his sign begging for money.  His pant leg pulled up to show a terrible scar that presumably prevented him from working but not from pacing up and down the exit for hours every afternoon.  I bet he made more money than I did.  

That was a very 7th house Gemini way of saying "it's complicated".

There is a new children's book out called "14 Cows for America" (don't have the name of the author right in front of me), about a small village tribe in Kenya, that arranges to give 14 cows to America after 9-11.  A tribe who had nothing, and could not fathom such tragedy befalling the richest, most powerful nation on earth, and felt moved to do something.  It's a beautiful lesson in charity and compassion.

I give what I can, when I can, and it is not always without judgement.   In fact, I can be a judgemental bitch when it comes to determining who deserves what and when..  but these days, I tend to self-reflect about that part of me, instead of just letting it go.., maybe it's Saturn in Libra playing out for me...

Anyway, the book is lovely.

I disagree that scorn comes only from the wealthy. They often do scorn, not denying that. But I know several people who grew up poor who see no reason why other people can't do the hard work they did. And I know several rich people who have liberal guilt and do not scorn, even when maybe they should.

I give food at the supermarket and trust that it will make its way to needy hands. As far as giving anything else, I would rather either give to people I know or give to an organization that has some kind of standard behind it. And I do so. I don't have enough money to waste it on people who don't get it. I'm not saying there aren't reasons why people don't get it, only that money doesn't change the end result.

Many rich people give to charities, just because they don't give money to individuals doesn't necessarily mean they are selfish. A lot of people who are panhandling are exactly the people to whom giving money would be a waste (addicts, etc.). I don't mean to imply anything about you, Bretagne, no offense.

USER- No offense taken, I love to hear all sides, nothing is black and white and simple.

Ok,, this is interesting. Like the comment that  most down and out folks " have burned thru their options and support systems. " What if there was little support system there to begin with?

Our society is maxxed out in the disconnection department.  

I always think of Mother Teresa and wonder what her take on this world would be, or Jesus?

I was coming back from lunch with two dear girlfriends and in the process of getting back into our car to leave they were approached by a homeless (looked alchoholic) guy who was panhandling. They both talked with him for a bit and gave him a couple of bucks. I was impressed that as they talked with him they seemed genuinely interested in what he had to say. I was watching from distance and when they got into the car I said, and now "he'll be jogging down to 7/11 to get some beer." They replied, "it doesn't matter what he does with the money, we gave it." It was one of those cynical days for me but it all became clear - it doesn't matter what the circumstances of their life is

all that matters is that you give. So, I guess "pay it forward" rings true here.

I've also done stuff like given $20 bills to homeless people just for the sheer joy of it all. You should see the reaction I get. It's priceless.  

I agree w/mini moffett about the statement about not having support systems to begin with. I don't know what got me to where I am today - of course personal effort was part of it, but I have no doubt that my genes, my family's education levels, my cultural upbringing and the support systems I had played a significant part. I cannot say with certainty that had I been raised in worse conditions that I would not be a criminal or a harm or a "burden" to society.

Having said that, if I wanted to trace the development of discrimination against the poor, I would probably do historical research about modern state governance and population control. There was a time when being ostracized from the group took on a very different character - it happened for different reasons and was executed in different ways. Exclusion in a modern state, especially who is excluded and how this exclusion is managed, is particular to its context. Michel Foucault writes about this so he is where i would start. I would also try to research homelessness and mental illness, as discourse regarding the two have developed together. Sorry, my answer to a lot of things is to do historical research!! I just find that it helps to realize that people did not always view the world in a certain way, and to understand that why we think the things we do goes way beyond our individual personalities.